s://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-the-html-api-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Introducing the HTML API in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/sticky-position-block-support/\">Sticky position block support</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/custom-css-for-global-styles-and-per-block/\">Custom CSS for global styles and per block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/minimum-height-dimensions-block-support/\">Minimum height dimensions block support</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/24/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-2-22-february/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 15.2? (22 February)</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<ul>\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on Twitter or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Transcript</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Hello and welcome to our 80th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about WordPress 6.2 Preview, Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and WordPress developer advocate and a full-time core contributor to the WordPress Open Source Project. I&#8217;m thrilled to have with me today Rich Tabor, product manager for the WordPress Open Source project and part of Automattic&#8217;s Five for the Future program. Hi, Rich, thank you so much for taking the time out of your very busy week to be here with us and talk to our listeners. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Hey, thanks, Birgit. I&#8217;m doing pretty well. I can&#8217;t complain, to be honest. Thanks for having me on this show. It&#8217;s been a long time coming here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah, I think so, for two years or so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: In and out. For many who have known you in the community, you are an early adopter of the block editor, you and Jeffrey Carandang worked on several things together in the early days, and that&#8217;s about five years ago now. Since then, you presented at WordCamps, virtual and in-person. I remember your talk at WordCamp Atlanta. No, was it Atlanta in 2019?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah, it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: &#8230; Boston &#8217;19 that I saw you, but both of them are fine. Also, your talk on WordCamp US in 2021 and last year, so there&#8217;s a lot you did in the last five years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I&#8217;ve been exploring block editing since I guess before it landed in WordPress. WordCamp US in 2018, I believe, is really what kicked me into gear on designing and building block experiences for Gutenberg. Since then, I&#8217;ve been building, launching, and sharing my knowledge however I can. Code Blocks, the project I did with Jeffrey Carandang, it&#8217;s now under the GoDaddy brand, I was one of the early explorations and just a really great entry to learning the ins and outs of Gutenberg. I personally learn best by doing something real and releasing an open source block plugin for folks to actually use was certainly the catalyst to where I am today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I used Code Blocks together with Atomic Blocks. Michael Allison was pretty much also on the forefront and it must have been before 2018, though, WordCamp US 2018, because I think wasn&#8217;t that there when you already sold Code Blocks to GoDaddy?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I think it was January 2018. In 2018, it was the like, &#8220;Hey, I need to get serious,&#8221; moment. Maybe it was &#8217;17, I don&#8217;t know, but right around there, it was like the, &#8220;Hey, let&#8217;s learn this and let&#8217;s do this.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Now, as a product builder, what do you find now fascinating about the WordPress, the block editor, the Site Editor, and this potential to empower folks?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I think that potential is huge. The WordPress experience is changing and evolving, and it&#8217;s slowly becoming more intuitive and better to use on the site level, not just on the post editor level. I just think that the opportunities for empowering those creatives and publishers and just people who want to share something and have a little ownership in it on the web is paramount to the future of the web, and I&#8217;m just so thankful to be a part of this time in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It&#8217;s been quite exciting to see what people come up in their creativity, what they do with the sites, what they do with the design tools, how they manage the space and the spacings and the dimension controls. There are quite a few additional explorations there that are totally new to WordPress, nobody really, apart from additional third-party page builder, but to have that right into the software is such an amazing product. I&#8217;m really happy about that. I&#8217;m glad we are finally here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: We&#8217;re getting there, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: We are there. To the Site Editor, do you think it&#8217;s ready to have people use it in production and all that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Oh yeah, certainly. I think that there&#8217;s always improvements to be made and there&#8217;s still a lot of lines to draw between the dots to connect a lot of these experiences, but overall, as a holistic editing experience for your site, it&#8217;s really been fine-tuned in the last couple of maybe half a year or so, since the release of 6.1, it&#8217;s really tightened up quite a bit and there&#8217;s more to do, but I&#8217;m pretty stoked at where we&#8217;re headed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Me too, me too. We will talk about it when we go to 15.3, I had another great experience with the new tools that are in there, but first of all, we have some announcements, well, actually one announcement, but it has multiple facets there.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Announcements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>There is an official WordPress Developer Blog and in February, there were six new posts published there and one of them was a block theme resource roundup by Daisy Olsen. If you are WordPress developer, either you have already experience with block themes, you get some resources there, as well as if you just get started and want to have one page where you can have a startup page, so to speak, get started and get to the resources that are available on wordpress.org, all through learn, through the Developer Blog, through documentation, the theme handbook, it&#8217;s a great roundup of all those resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The next one is a little bit is a topic that is really high on our minds and finally, we have a post up there, and you probably can talk about that, as well, it&#8217;s about the intrinsic design theming and rethinking how to do design with WordPress. Justin Tadlock wrote this post because there were a lot of questions about the responsiveness of WordPress, that&#8217;s one thing. The other one is many people that come from other page builders, they miss their viewpoints, the three viewpoints that they have been using for the last 8 or 10 years. But intrinsic design is more the fluid typography, so no matter what the screen size is, it adapts to the screen size and there&#8217;s also fluid spacing that&#8217;s now part of WordPress. Is that enough, what do you think, Rich?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I think you hit it on pretty good. It&#8217;s the idea that when you design something in WordPress, in this case, that it inherits the responsive nature of the viewport, instead of you having to actually declare those values, like instead of declaring that you want to font size smaller on mobile or even a column going to Stack on mobile versus on desktop, maybe it&#8217;s side-by-side. It is something that intrinsically will Stack whenever it becomes too small to render side-by-side, so trying to figure out those controls, it is tricky to be honest, but there&#8217;s been a lot of improvements in that direction and overall, it does simplify the editing experience quite a bit. That doesn&#8217;t mean that we&#8217;re there, by any means, on the controls that we need, but if we do improve some of the Row and Stack capabilities and some of this intrinsic design methodology in WordPress, I think it will move forward to the point where it&#8217;s less of a concept that you have to think about and more of just a way that you expect it to work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I can see that those viewpoints, that&#8217;s more for designers rather than your site owners or those who just want to build a website and hope that it&#8217;s all working out of the box, and those concepts can get really confusing, but also very hard to manage. I saw a plugin that was built on the block editor, but they had six viewpoints for every design decision. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s where we want to go as a product, pretty much, or for the normal user or even the design user, the theme developer, that they have to be so granular. It&#8217;s not so much thinking about the first version of it, but also where did I change this? Is it in the viewpoint of this one or this one or this one?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With the proliferation of the screen sizes, they go smaller, but they also get bigger, I think it&#8217;s going to be harder and harder to actually hit the right size for the viewpoints. I think there was a very interesting article from Justin Tadlock and there&#8217;s definitely a lot of discussion also on there, so dear listeners, you can definitely spend a half an hour or so reading that and also reading the discussions. Another article on the Developer Blog explains the difference between the static and dynamic blocks. Joni Halibi wrote this one. I know it was a topic close to her heart. She&#8217;s a developer at Georgetown University.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Thank you. I heard her talking about it, so I asked her if she wanted to write about it. It&#8217;s definitely a great rundown of the pros and cons of static and dynamic blocks. Dynamic blocks are rendered with PHP, static blocks are everything the editor, as well as frontend is coming from Post Content from the JavaScript. I think the biggest hurdle is the updating during development and after development. I&#8217;m jumping over the other lists there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is just today, Michael Burridge published an article on how to deprecate static blocks and have some version, so you have a version of a block on the site and you use it multiple times and then a new update comes for the block. Sometimes when you open up the post into the editor and there was a block in there and it wasn&#8217;t deprecated right, it has this error message in there, so something happened with the block kind of thing, and some of you have already seen it, and this prevents that from happening. It&#8217;s not difficult from the mechanics, but it&#8217;s definitely something to think about when you do static block development. How did you feel about that when you came across it in your early days of block development?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I feel like that&#8217;s a pointed question. The idea between static and dynamic blocks is really powerful. Dynamic blocks are definitely, I would say, probably the primary use case on most of the more complex blocks that you would build, in particular in third-party situations like rebuilding a custom block for a client, because you don&#8217;t need deprecations at that point. If you need to make changes, you can, because it&#8217;s all rendered in PHP, and the tooling around dynamic blocks has improved quite a bit, as well, with the render.php file that you can load in and it makes templating a much easier process than it was originally. But deprecations are a necessary part of static blocks and they can be a little frustrating just because it sits there forever at that point, but if I&#8217;m building a custom block these days, I probably would lean more on the dynamic side, if possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I can see that. There are some new ideas actually happening that also will be on tap into the dynamic block development there, and we will talk about it on the Gutenberg Changelog when the time is right. Two more posts were launched just recently, one was how to create a custom block that stores Post Meta. That&#8217;s certainly a big question that a lot of people had and Ryan Welcher answers that question nicely, walk you through step-by-step, and explains very much most of the steps that are necessary to make that successful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the other post is converting your short codes to blocks, and that one is from Jonathan Bossenger and he has his use case that he&#8230; It&#8217;s not really a conversion, it&#8217;s recreating something that was a short code into a block and make it more user-friendly. Short codes had their good usage, but with newer modern interfaces, they are just too cumbersome for site users to write all those text strings and not forgetting a comma or something like that, so converting them to blocks is definitely a good way to go about them. Any thoughts about those two problems? It doesn&#8217;t have to be from the articles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I would say they&#8217;re both well-written and good examples of writing tutorials and documentation together, in a sense. There&#8217;s a short code that Jonathan&#8217;s actually converting in real time, you can see and watch it, I think you might be able to listen to part of it, but the idea that you&#8217;re taking a real-world example and converting it, I think is very powerful. And then the same goes for the other one about storing Post Meta with the custom block. I think it&#8217;s very powerful and hasn&#8217;t been done very often, or at least not often enough that&#8217;s front and center, because it really is a powerful way to manipulate Post Meta, but also site options. I think it works very similar if you&#8217;re updating the site options, which is what the site title block does and the Site Logo block. But you could do other options, perhaps, like I experimented with pulling in the WooCommerce phone number into a block, but if you update it there, it also updates it in WooCommerce, again, connecting some of those dots that right now are very disconnected and this is one of those steps in that direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Well, that&#8217;s actually a good idea to look beyond the WordPress core and see where connections and integrations are made. We definitely share the links in the show notes that are coming out with this episode or you can just go to the Developer Blog and read through the latest What&#8217;s new for developers? (March 2023). That&#8217;s the second edition of a roundup post of what&#8217;s new not only in a block in the block development, but also for core and the learn places, but it&#8217;s specifically for developers, extenders, plugin developers, theme developers, or agency developers so they can get up to speed very fast.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Community Contributions</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We have, in the section of community contributions, there&#8217;s one new project, the theme team kicked off the community theme project, and I believe, Rich, you were part of it. What can you tell us about it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah, certainly. On March 7th, we had, I think, over 20 people participating in the Hallway Hangout session to discuss it. This community theme project is an interesting way to start really just encouraging experienced and new WordPress contributors to create more themes, in particular, block themes. It was a big learning curve to how block themes are created compared to existing themes, but really they&#8217;re much more of a simple system that&#8217;s design-oriented, so some of the talks were centered around a designing a theme within the editor and not necessarily with a different design tool like Figma, which is a huge challenge, but I really think it will help open up a lot more eyes to the issues that we need to continue resolving within the editor to encourage more of the explorative design work that designers can leverage to build beautiful themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s a Slack channel within Make, it&#8217;s the Core Themes Projects channel, there&#8217;s some discussion there. There&#8217;s a repo, I think it&#8217;s WordPress/community-themes. The idea is that you can start creating themes and submit them as a pull request and collectively, we&#8217;ll all try to help get these situated in the right way, so where we&#8217;re all learning and growing from this experience of building themes together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I&#8217;m really excited about this. This started with the theme team, thinking about the latest default team that was 2023, where there was a call for sending in style variations. There was a base theme that was made public very early and then there were, I think, 19 theme designers sent in about 30, almost 40, style variations, of which 10 made it into the final release. But that kind of community collaboration is always very fruitful and very creative and it helps people really learn about things, but also push the boundaries so much more than just brooding alone in your own remote home office. I think that&#8217;s a fantastic way to get the community also in producing more than one theme per year; I hope that is what will come out of it. The theme will all be published under the username of WordPress, so that&#8217;s the new part of it, I would think. Do you already have an idea for a theme that you might want to work on?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I&#8217;ve got the bug to redesign my blog again. I love it, but I want to remove some of the barriers to publishing. Featured image, right now, it&#8217;s almost required in my current blog design, and then I want my headings to be a certain lead flow, so I want to try to identify the things that are blocking me from publishing more and start designing in that essence, so it could be more of a thought feed instead of only technical blog posts, in a sense. That&#8217;s my personal project I&#8217;ve been exploring a little bit on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I saw that the list of block patterns for the Query Loop actually would probably help you with that, because there are quite a few text-based lists design available now in the Block Pattern Directory, as well as I think that are now coming out, as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah. There&#8217;s more opinionated design elements to some of these patterns, which I think is great because at the end of the day, if you don&#8217;t want to use a pattern, you don&#8217;t have to use it, but if you do want to use one of these more interesting, opinionated designs, then it&#8217;s a great start to building out the rest of your theme. I&#8217;m really looking forward to even more of the patterns coming down from WordPress.org.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. Oh, speaking about switching the site up, Felix Arntz, who is a software engineer with Google, shared his experience on doing exactly that, switching his site from a classic theme to a block theme and his post is exactly that, rebuilding my website using block theme. It&#8217;s a very long post; he recounts all the steps in detail that it took him to convert it, and it wasn&#8217;t so much&#8230; It was minimal code editing, he says, in part, but he also had to update his custom blocks, so that&#8217;s part of it. But he also, and that was very interesting for me to read, is that Felix is also a member of the WordPress Performance Team, so what he did was also measuring the performance before and after the redesign and it really piqued my interest, and you definitely should read it, dear listeners. I&#8217;m only Miss Numbers on the podcast, it&#8217;s really hard, but I just wanted to say one number.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He did two steps. One was just recreating the same pages with the block theme, the header and content and Query Loop and that part and then measured it, and then he did additional tweaking and he actually explains very detailed how he did those. And then with the first step, just moving it over to a block theme, he had an improvement on the LCP, which is the longest content paint, one of the web vitals. He went from something a little over 1 second to 600 milliseconds, so that was an almost 38% improvement of the speed. But when he did the first performance tweaks, he went down to 452 from 1 second to 0.4 second, that&#8217;s an improvement of almost 60%. That was the first time that I actually saw this so very much spelled out and I have a trust in Felix that his numbers are actually averages from multiple tests, he explains that also in his post, but this was a very interesting post in many, many directions. Also, learning more how to do some more performance tweaks was one. I&#8217;ll leave the link in the show notes and definitely go and read it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I would just like to echo what Felix writes at the very end. He says, &#8220;Block themes in full site editing, the effort for the Site Editor has evolved quite a bit since it originally launching in 5.9.&#8221; He says, &#8220;Here, I can with confidence say that it was the right decision for me to jump on that train now. If you&#8217;ve tried block themes a while ago and weren&#8217;t satisfied, maybe give it another try.&#8221; I totally agree with that sentiment. Especially if you have a personal blog, I would say just give it a shot, even 2023, put that on there and start designing it within the editor, then start running with it, you can see what happens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: If you are not a developer and a little bit of hesitant to change something in production or on a live site, definitely be cautious. There is a new tutorial up and I just listened to it a couple days ago with Sarah Snow, she actually did the same thing. She went and replaced her old theme with a new theme and rebuilt her website, but she also walks through how she tried to avoid all the pitfalls to take her site down and all that, so that is also for non-developers, a very good tutorial to look at and to watch.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>What’s Released &#8211; WordPress 6.2</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That brings us to the section of what&#8217;s released? Of course, we start with this week, it was release week with multiple releases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of them was the 6.2 Release Candidate 1 and the contributor published 12 dev notes that are related to the block editor in the Field Guide. The Release Candidate 1 is that point in the release cycle where there is hard string freeze, the Field Guide is published, and the emails go out to plugin and theme developers about what&#8217;s new, that send the Field Guide and also to test their products against the new version so they can figure out all the incompatibilities or make it compatible to the version. The final release is on March 28th, 2023, that&#8217;s, right now, 18 days from today. We are recording this on March 10th. Rich, you were part of the release squad as lead for design, what was your role there, or is your role there, you are not done yet?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: No, not quite yet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: We are not done yet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right. I think there&#8217;s three focuses, especially around this release. But the first, I would say it&#8217;s keeping a general pulse on what&#8217;s coming, what&#8217;s being worked on, keeping contributors focused on delivering that best, optimal WordPress experience that&#8217;s always right there on the horizon. It doesn&#8217;t mean we&#8217;re there today, like I&#8217;ve said a couple times here, but if we set our gaze in that direction, I&#8217;m sure we will continue refining and iterating towards that best experience, so that&#8217;s the first. The second would be the about page. The WordPress about page introduces you to the latest and greatest parts of WordPress that have been put into by all these contributors over the last release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s been a fun project working with designers from the design community and really putting together the images and the layout and the structure, even the copy, to make sure that it portrays 6.2 as intended. 6.2 has a lot of new stuff in it and it&#8217;s hard to distill that into one page, but it&#8217;s been a welcome challenge, for sure. And then the last bit, this release, we did a product demo of 6.2, I did it with Anne McCarthy, and that was a very nice way to really showcase what&#8217;s coming in a live action, here, this is like a real demo on a real site that I set up. I was using 2023 and I designed it a little bit differently so that it showcased some of the design tooling in the actual demo itself and it was great. We had lots of help, lots of folks really chimed in to make that what it was, and I thought it went pretty well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The site was beautiful. If you, dear listeners, haven&#8217;t seen it yet, go, and of course there will be a link in the show notes, but go to the product demo and watch that video. You will learn a lot about 6.2, but also it&#8217;s actually a joy to watch, so that&#8217;s definitely….</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It shows that a designer was preparing for the product, absolutely. As mentioned, there are block editor related dev notes, so what&#8217;s coming, what should developers watch out for? We are not going through all 12 of them, but there, we have a few. First off is the introduction of the Block Inspector tabs, which is a design, an interface change, that your customers or you, if you build sites for others, will need to get used to, because now the settings are in two tabs, one is the settings tab, the other one is the appearance tab. In the developer note, we learn how a custom block can manage that for themselves, where do the settings go or the styles? I know that some custom blocks have their own color picker and if they don&#8217;t do anything, they will find it under settings and not under appearance, for instance, because settings is a default. There&#8217;s a little trick there that&#8217;s in the dev notes how to do that, there&#8217;s a new Group attribute that says either style or settings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Next step, we have shadows that are added to global styles in 6.2. These are shadow presets that are provided within the core theme.json file, but themes can also provide their own shadow presets using, I think it&#8217;s settings, shadow preset. There are four or five provided by core, but they&#8217;re pretty easy to override. In the future, releases will include the shadow control elsewhere. Right now, it&#8217;s only on the button block and that&#8217;s to restart refining it and tightening up the experience first. Some other ideas that are circling are perhaps allowing multiple shadows, so how do you Stack them, perhaps? Of course, the blur, the X and the Y, trying to really hone in on the design of the shadows, as well, but right now, they&#8217;re just preset-based. I think they&#8217;re nice, but they do need a little bit more work before we move them available on more blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: You said that they are now only available for the button block, they are not available in the post editor, only in the Site Editor in the style sidebar, just because of that….</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: &#8230; that you only can do global studies with that. The next one is the introduction of an HTML API, which is, it&#8217;s very developer-oriented, so it&#8217;s highly technical, but it&#8217;s a uniform way that WordPress developers now can travel through parsing a website and changing out tags. That was always prone to rejects and all the other things that was only prone to not always hit the mark and this one is now so much better. People can use it not only for the block editor, but of course, also for their PHP plugin or other apps that they add to the WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right. The next one here is the sticky position block support was added in 6.2. Right now, it&#8217;s featured on top-level Group blocks, so only the Group blocks that are within the top level of your document, so in the list view, it&#8217;s the first level. It&#8217;s this new prop that right now enables you to set it to sticky and if it&#8217;s set to sticky, even within the editor itself, the actual Group block will stick. Right now, it&#8217;s not open to other blocks because there&#8217;s still some UX considerations around sticky positioning, because it doesn&#8217;t always stick if the surrounding element isn&#8217;t tall enough to allow for sticking, so trying to figure a smart way to communicate that is a very important part of that experience, otherwise you would think it would stick, but it doesn&#8217;t. I think that that&#8217;s something significant to iron out, but that&#8217;s already in the works for, hopefully, the next release of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: There&#8217;s a lot of trial and error to do and a lot of people have a different ideas on how is this supposed to work, but I am really looking forward to it. Well, the sticky header, we all know about, but with mobile, you also need to think about a sticky footer, because that&#8217;s where your thumb goes. When you look at a webpage, you are not going to the top, you are going to the bottom, so there are quite some new variations possible. The next one is that a lot of people waited for it and now, here it is, custom CSS in the global styles, that&#8217;s one part, but also you can have custom CSS4 on a block level, so it&#8217;s now here. It&#8217;s a little bit more hidden, so it&#8217;s also in the style sidebar, it&#8217;s not upfront in the left-side menu item like it was for the customizer, but it&#8217;s there and it works and it&#8217;s beautiful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: A few people asked me if it would also come to the post editor so you can do it on a single instance of a block, because in the style sheet, you only do it for the block and then it propagates over the full site, but if you just want to do one section in your per&#8230; That&#8217;s not possible, unless you do an additional class name in the advanced section and then go to the standard sheet and put that class name and your styles in there. I have an answer for that person who had the question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes. And then the next big one is the minimum height dimension support, and this is a new block support feature added to 6.2 for the Group and I believe the Post Content blocks and it&#8217;s opted in by default. This makes the Group and Post Content blocks perform much like the Cover block, where you can set a minimum height that it would take over in the page. It&#8217;s useful, for example, if you had a footer and some content and you wanted the content to keep the footer down below, so you can set a minimum height of the content using a viewport unit, perhaps, and then that would apply it to where the footer would stay towards the bottom of the page and not be meshed up at the top. It&#8217;s pretty self-explanatory and we already have this in the Cover block, but it starts to extend it out into other blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Wonderful. Excellent. Also, there is not a Card block per se, but there is a component there, but I think with the minimum height, you actually could use that Card block for all kinds of different content there. The Miscellaneous Editor changes in WordPress 6 is that that place where all the little things go in. There are a few little things that are not new features, but they are extending existing features. The first one is the fluid typography now also has a minimum font size in the UI that you can set, I think is it UI? Yeah, I think so. You could always do this for the theme. How you can use it, I read 13,000 words in three days or something like that, forgive me for that. That&#8217;s why in 6.1, there was a minimum, but there was a hard coded minimum and now it&#8217;s you can set this as a theme developer, as well, in the theme.json. Of course, it&#8217;s not in the UI yet, fluid topography is not that yet in the style things, I guess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: For another Miscellaneous improvement, we have sizing controls for flex layout children. This means that when you have Container blocks, like the Group block and Row and Stack blocks, you can set a flex-type layout which provides controls for the blocks within those. If your blocks are stacked vertically, then it would be a height control, if they&#8217;re stacked horizontally, it&#8217;s a width control, so it&#8217;s dynamic in that sense. You can set, I believe it&#8217;s fit, fill, and fixed, so that&#8217;s where it either hugs the content, fills the available space, or is a fixed value. This plays into the intrinsic design that we were talking about earlier in starting to add more controls that allow a block to either try to take up only a space as it needs, fill up all the space that is available, or stay within constrained value, so it&#8217;s one of those improvements in that direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The next one is there is a new CSS class attributed to every Heading block, so now you can control the Heading block more granularly for each of the levels, and you can, for instance, say a blue background for all the H1s and a pink one for all the H2s, which is now easily done through the theme.json by adding the other style for the elements. You have style elements, each one, color, background, that would be the latter, and the other one would be styles for blocks and then Heading and then the elements, then each one, and the background, so it&#8217;s quite granular in the controls, that&#8217;s pretty cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah, I agree. I believe the last one for the Miscellaneous Editor improvements is the ability to edit block style variations from theme.json. This is a new theme.json API that allows existing core block style variations to be styled directly from theme.json. For example, the Image block has a rounded variation, so you could target the rounded variation and set its border width or border radius within theme.json now, which is pretty neat.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I believe then, was it in 15.3, we also get the UI for it in the style?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Well, we&#8217;ll come to that. But that is our WordPress 6.2 rundown on the developer notes. Of course, there&#8217;s more, look at the Field Guide, the links will be in the show notes, of course.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re coming to the last, to Gutenberg releases 15.2 and 15.3. Gutenberg 15.2 was released on February 23rd. Yes, it&#8217;s been that long that we heard each other, I know, and I&#8217;m really sorry about that. Daisy Olsen was release lead for that and it contained 197 PRs merged by 57 contributors, four of them were new. It was mostly fixing bug fixes, because WordPress 6.2 will contain all the features that came out in 14.2 to 15.1, that&#8217;s the whole range, 10 Gutenberg plugin releases, the features all come into core. But then after the beta release, there are a lot&nbsp; more people testing it, they find bugs, and they are still also finished the last little bit on some of the features, so many things in the Gutenberg 5.2 release or in the bug fix category. The new features probably didn&#8217;t make it into 6.2, but we can tackle each one of them and find out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes, I&#8217;ll kick us off here. The first bit here is that there is a new nested level when selecting templates or template parts in the Site Editor, which is an enhancement that right now is a little bit it&#8217;s in a middle ground, where it&#8217;s basically a placeholder state for future contents to go. Some ideas are when you focus in on a template part, we could potentially have the different template parts that you could replace with that one, for example, or even some other different controls, like assigning it a category, having its name present, so it&#8217;s right now, a place to start thinking of what controls we can put there to control that template part.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The second part I want to point out is there&#8217;s now a modal to choose a start pattern for particular templates. The biggest problem users have is they want to start a new template, but how do they start? Now, theme developers and also plugin developers can actually add patterns to the site that now opens a modal and then can be selected. Also, the selection is a little bit better to view because you have more space to see all the patterns that are available for that. There is also an API in the works that lets you target certain templates with your patterns, but that has not been released yet, that&#8217;s still in the works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: This next one here is pretty interesting, it&#8217;s the UI for template revisions. Now, we have a button to open up the revisions for templates and template parts, which is quite powerful because previously, it was very difficult or nearly impossible to find those revisions for your actual template parts. Say you&#8217;re focused in on your header and you changed some of your navigation items and then you changed maybe the background color of your header and then saved it all, but wanted to go back to a different version the next day or so, say it didn&#8217;t really sit well, you can now access those revisions and make those requests to change them back to what it was previously. I think it&#8217;s pretty neat on the template level and again on the template part.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Revisions, I always need to change my mind once back and forth, this revision is really helpful, having access to it to know what my former self was thinking with that and go back to a previous one. The next one with 15.2, it came a global save button to the Site Editor, so when you make changes to multiple templates and all that, it tracks them and then you can save all at once, but it&#8217;s not anymore to the right, it&#8217;s going to be on the left. I think it makes it, actually, in 6.2, you can have that, that was….</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah, I believe so. We have another one here for the Post Excerpt block that allows you to control the length of the excerpt. There&#8217;s a range control now where you could slide it left or right, or I think you could also enter an integer value, as well. It would essentially truncate to the Post Excerpt within the Query Loop block, so now you can define how long you want those to be instead of falling back on the default number of characters, which was pretty large, so it&#8217;s a nice quality of life improvement for designing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I&#8217;m just hesitating and I need to verify this, there is the possibility that that was actually reversed in a later version.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I think the change, it was affecting if a post type didn&#8217;t support Post Excerpts. I don&#8217;t know that it actually reverted the control itself, but it is still a work in progress, that&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t think it landed in 6.2.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: No, it didn&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: It could be tidied up a little bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: We definitely need to test this, as well, in a real-life situation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Do you have a site that&#8217;s on Nightly or on trunk, where you have all the latest versions in production or so?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes. I&#8217;m running it dangerously, I&#8217;m running everything. The whole eat your own dog food stuff, I just really want to see the problems before they get big.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I changed over, I don&#8217;t know, a year ago for the Gutenberg Times to run on WordPress Nightly and also on the trunk version of the Gutenberg Nightly, which is a plugin coming every day from the current version.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: On the website, on the Gutenberg Times, you can see the Nightly, if you need to live on the edge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The next item on the list is that the Post Featured Image block now has aspect ratio controls, so you can determine that and it makes your post table, the list of posts, much nicer to control that so when you have different sizes and images, you can actually say which aspect ratio you want to have in there. That&#8217;s a long-time want of mine to get that. There are themes who manage that quite well, but now you can do this, as well, in the block editor site templates thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes. There&#8217;s some more follow-ups on aspect ratio. I think it can be quite a powerful tool for not just a Post Featured Image block, but also just Image blocks or even Cover block maybe, I think there&#8217;s other ways to continue to push that forward, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I see from my agency days, which are not that long ago, see users adding featured images or even just images when they&#8217;re just changed the size of it and they didn&#8217;t change the aspect ratio with it, it was just very distorted. It&#8217;s very hard to teach that who is not dealing with it on a day-to-day basis and does not have an image dimension feel for it, it&#8217;s very hard to teach that, so if that works out as it should be in the editor, it makes for a much better web.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Bug Fixes</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes, yes. I think that&#8217;s it for the highlights, for the enhancements. There was a whole slew of bugs that were fixed in 15.2, so I&#8217;ll call out this one here. The ToolsPanel needed a couple of tweaks, there&#8217;s a new feature in 6.2 for copy and pasting styles so you can design a heading or design a button, design anything, and copy its styling and then paste it onto another like block, so copy the heading styles to another heading or button to another button, for example. We needed a way to ensure that those values were properly propagated to these other blocks so there were some minor tweaks to fix that, but now, it&#8217;s all good and when you copy and paste those styles, you see those applied properly within the tools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: That&#8217;s such a phenomenal feature, that copy styles over, that you can have it. It&#8217;s in-between block-oriented or block on this post and global styles, it&#8217;s in-between, and sometimes you need that to make the same things look the same, but not the other things. It&#8217;s really good to just do copy paste on that. I think that was it for 15.2, unless I&#8217;m overlooking something. I&#8217;m scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: This is a pretty big Changelog, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. I find one, though. You could use, so that&#8217;s for the build tools, the WP Scripts has now another flag that you can actually run it in development without having the watch from apply every build on your development system. I think that&#8217;s a good flag to point out for people who use those internal script for that. That&#8217;s the Gutenberg 15.2 for us. Let&#8217;s dive right in to 15.3. You&#8217;re coming right off of releasing it, Rich, so what was your first experience with&#8230; Was this your first experience releasing a Gutenberg plugin?</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Gutenberg 15.3</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes, it was, but I did co-release it with Hector, so he&#8217;s a team member of mine. He helped me, he guided me quite a bit on this one, but it was pretty smooth, to be honest, especially there&#8217;s a little bit of tension around getting the immediate bug fixes in for 6.2 and backporting and keeping that in line. But generally speaking, I think it&#8217;s a well-oiled machine and moving forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Definitely. It&#8217;s the 153rd release, so you hope that everything is well-oiled by then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I like when you say backport and not only to 6.2, but also there are bug fixes for the release after the Release Candidate. There is an expression that I really like that&#8217;s cherry picking, which is an interesting thing to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Enhancements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: But it&#8217;s just a little joke. People talk about it with cherry emojis. The release had 161 PRs in there, so almost as big as 15.2, and also a lot of bug fixes in there, but it also had some enhancements to the Duotone, quite a few. The Duotone CSS is now not created in line, that&#8217;s the expression, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes. It&#8217;s not applied in line.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: In line, it&#8217;s now in the style engine, so it can also be controlled through all the different levels. There is a control for the global size control for the Duotone and CSS variables instead of slugs, which helps it to propagate it over different to use the presets, as well, so Duotone is quite interesting. There is actually a bug in the backwards compatibility, it&#8217;s already noted that when you have a Cover block with Duotone and you upgrade it to 15.3, you get the heart attack kind of thing, oh, my Duotone is missing. If you apply them again on the same Cover block, it will appear again. That&#8217;s something that we found while we were testing it, but the bug fix is in the works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Nice. It also means that by using these slugs instead of hardcoded hex values for colors, that when you do switch to variations, for example, those Duotones can actually map now to the new variations. If they use the same slugs, then you&#8217;ll get the new styles instead of in previous versions, where if you applied a Duotone reset from a theme, like say it was yellow and blue and then you switched to a variation or changed your theme up to one that was green, they would still be yellow and blue, so now it can receive the new ones if there are there. I think it&#8217;s a pretty cool improvement on something that is one of those things that should have always worked this way and now that we&#8217;ve explored a little bit more, it&#8217;s like, &#8220;Let&#8217;s go ahead and knock that out,&#8221; so a lot of effort went into that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The style versions are very, very interesting in that regard, that sometimes you want the thing to come over, take over your site, but then you want certain things that stay the same. It&#8217;s very hard to read the user&#8217;s mind as a developer, as a designer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: The way I look at it is if you&#8217;re using a preset, then that&#8217;s game for a theme to manipulate. But if you&#8217;ve applied your own colors, I believe in these Duotone PRs, even if you applied a red and black, by picking the actual colors yourself, then those will stay hex value, so when you switch to a different theme, they&#8217;ll still remain red and black. But if it&#8217;s a preset, I would say that it&#8217;s open for interpretation by the theme designer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I think there is a bug in there. 15.3 also brings us a new block. It&#8217;s been a while since we had new blocks, but this one is a very tiny block, but it&#8217;s very powerful. People know that in a list view, you can see the number of blocks and the number of words and the time to read and several people asked, &#8220;Can we have that also show up as a block so we can add it to our post template or for the single post?&#8221; Yes, this was now implemented. It&#8217;s a very basic block, it only shows one minute or three minutes, well, 15 minutes, that&#8217;s all it does, but I really like that, because first, it can be translated in any language, and if you use it together with a Paragraph block in a Row, then you can have any string in front of it or after it that you as a site owner want to put in there. I tested that and it worked really nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I think there&#8217;s some follow-up PRs to do on that to add some of the design tooling that exists on other blocks, but it&#8217;s a great start and just nice, another piece of meta that can help readers know what to expect, investment-wise, like how much time am I going to invest on this? I think it&#8217;s great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: That was the one point where I really needed and was so happy that they have now, the custom CSS, because on the blog where I used it, I wanted to have that line reading time, one minute or three minute, be smaller than the rest of the excerpt in the post list. I was able to, of course, use the typography controls for the paragraph part, but not for the time to read, so I created, there is an advanced section where I can add a new class. I set a T2R and then went to the custom styles and then created the custom style for the T2R and made it font size small, which is pretty much the same as the reading time. It worked out of the box and with the rows, I could align it. The row controls were really nice, I like that. Now, I see that you could do some of the other shortcuts that are out there that are actually strings that are in a paragraph can now be blocks that need some design controls, but you don&#8217;t have to use the shortcuts anymore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: That&#8217;s right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I&#8217;m thinking a little bit more in that direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I know that some of the developers actually were exploring having a token system to take care of those string-related in the middle of a paragraph kind of thing. I&#8217;m not sure if that is needed or just introduces another complication or complexity to the system and it&#8217;s hard for users to use. If you have a block meta for it, it&#8217;s so much easier to get it into the system.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yes, I agree. 15.3, I would say these are the big hitters on these, but there were a bunch of small improvements like making the Site Logo block placeholder just a little bit smaller so it fits better within headers, especially around the new header patterns included in 6.2. There&#8217;s been some quite a few bug fixes around template parts, resetting all for typography, making sure the Site Editor&#8217;s a little bit more tightened up, so some of the alignment parts and then the design units within the Site Editor have been tweaked and it looks and feels like it&#8217;s coming together quite well, but generally, I think those are the big hitters.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Let me go a little bit, I&#8217;m scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Oh, what also happened, say, for some of the developers there wanted to know if there are new theme.json filters came into 6.1, but they were not yet in the documentation and they are now. There is a page in the how to guides of the Block Editor Handbook that is titled Curating the Editor Experience that has all the different ways how you can control or disable some of the features that are either in the sidebar available for your user or not or show up or are not. Now, you can also do this for the theme.json filters, they are now listed there. I believe one of the writers on the Developer Blog is actually looking at writing about them and having some good examples that are a little bit more closer to the real-life situations. I used the release candidate Changelog, but I think that was it, right, we all done?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: Yeah, I think so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yes. That&#8217;s all we wanted you to know about 15.3, the rest you need to discover yourself. Of course, we have the What&#8217;s New in Gutenberg 15.3 post will be in the show notes. I don&#8217;t know if you published them yet or is it still in the works?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: It should be out soon, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I wait for the episode to be published for that post, of course, so we can get it in there. Almost at the end of our Changelog episode, so what&#8217;s next for you in next week or next month?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: 6.2, the idea is that it sums up the culmination of Phase 2 and the kickoff of Phase 3. It doesn&#8217;t mean that there isn&#8217;t quite a bit more customization and design tooling that we need to continue to bake in, even like I was saying with the time to read block, as well, but that means that there&#8217;s now some more thinking going into what workflow-oriented processes look like for Phase 3, what type of collaboration can we start looking at. Making those plans and start writing about them and sharing ideas with everyone and really getting folks on focus and on point with Phase 3, I think is really important, so I&#8217;m going to start digging into that a little bit more, making sure the about page assets are tightened up and looking good for 6.2, and continuing to explore around designing block themes within the editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Awesome. I very much looking forward to the Phase 3 collaboration because it also will catapult your WordPress a little bit ahead of all of the other content management systems, because that&#8217;s what we are actually waiting for the last 25 years, is collaborating on our websites and not using all the other tools where you have to copy paste things over once you&#8217;re done with the collaboration. Now, you can do it all on the website, so I am really excited about that. Thank you so much for being on the show and walking us through all the great design and interface changes. When people want to reach you, where can they reach out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Rich Tabor</em>: I write and share everything I know on my blog, richtabor, that&#8217;s T-A-B-O-R, .com. I am on Twitter, so Richard, R-I-C-H-A-R-D, _Tabor. I like to explore the fringes of WordPress and experience and try to push ideas around and see what resonates with folks, so feel free to chime in and ask questions or ping me anywhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: As always, the show notes will be published on the gutenbergtimes.com/podcast. This is the 80th episode. If you have questions, suggestions, or news you want us to talk about, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. Thank you all for listening and thank you again, Rich, for spending time with me on this. Goodbye, everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p> </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:27:27 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:113:\"Gutenberg Times: Fieldguide for WordPress 6.2, Community theme project, Theme.json and PHP—Weekend Edition #246\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=23549\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:119:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/fieldguide-for-wordpress-6-2-community-theme-project-theme-json-and-php-weekend-edition-246/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19244:\"<p>Howdy, howdy! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>This has been a busy week! Phew. The contributors published twelve Dev Notes related to the Block Editor together with the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/\">Release candidate 1 version</a> of WordPress 6.2. The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/\"><strong>Field Guide</strong></a> has all the developer related updates. It&#8217;s time for plugin and theme developers to test their products for compatibility with the new WordPress version. The final version is scheduled for March 28th, 2023. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The release squad for documentation, Milana Cap, Abha Thakor, Femy Praseet, and yours truly, wrangled the developer notes from two tracking systems, WordPress Trac and Gutenberg Repo. After the posts were drafted, we took turns reviewing them before publishing, all 13,150 words. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then there were the posts for the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">WordPress Developer Blog</a>, that needed editing and reviewing. That was lot of reading already, and then I kept an eye out for interesting content in the community to assemble this week&#8217;s round up post. The good news is, I am done for the week. 😎  🏖️</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Enjoy and don&#8217;t take it in all at once. Keep some for later. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-sortabrilliant-guidepost\"><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#dev62\">Dev Notes WordPress 6.2 (Block Editor)</a><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-theme-related\">For Theme developers</a></li></ul></li></ul></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ul></div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/marybaum\">Mary Baum</a></strong> published a follow-up to the Preview of 6.2 which ran out of time for numerous questions.  <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/10/6-2-live-product-demo-qa/\">6.2 Live Product Demo Q &amp; A</a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\"><img /></a><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\">Preview of WordPress 6.2</a>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Dave Smith</strong> and <strong>Rich Tabor</strong> chatted about the <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEvgw88lls\"><strong>Top Five features coming to WordPress 6.2</strong></a>, with some cool demos of Site Editor browsing, the Style Book, Media inserter and Distraction-free mode in the post editor. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In the post, <strong><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/whats-new-for-developers-march-2023/\">What’s new for developers? (March 2023)</a></strong>, Justin Tadlock collected a myriad of interesting updates to WordPress that are specifically relevant for developers. &#8220;If you’re a developer who builds on top of the WordPress platform, this news is for you. The goal is to make it easier to navigate the fast-paced development cycle, narrowing down the list of must-read content into a single digestible source.&#8221; Tadlock wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>It&#8217;s the second edition of this monthly round-up. If the roundup posts are all you require to stay on top of changes of WordPress, you can subscribe to the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/tag/roundup/feed/\">Roundup Tag Feed</a> with your favorite Feed Reader. </em></p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"dev62\">Dev Notes WordPress 6.2 (Block Editor)</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/editor-components-updates-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Editor Components updates in WordPress 6.2</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/add-new-prop-to-serversiderender-component/\">Add new prop to ServerSideRender component</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/02/wordpress-6-2-accessibility-improvements/\">WordPress 6.2 Accessibility Improvements</a>  </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introduction-of-block-inspector-tabs/\">Introduction of Block Inspector Tabs</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-the-html-api-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Introducing the HTML API in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/upgrading-to-react-18-and-common-pitfalls-of-concurrent-mode/\">Upgrading to React 18 and common pitfalls of concurrent mode</a> </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-theme-related\">For Theme developers</h4>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/custom-css-for-global-styles-and-per-block/\">Custom CSS for global styles and per block</a>  </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/miscellaneous-editor-changes-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Miscellaneous Editor changes in WordPress 6.2</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/28/custom-settings-wordpress-6-2/\">Customize settings for any block in WordPress 6.2</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/shadows-in-global-styles-with-wordpress-6-2/\">Shadows in Global Styles with WordPress 6.2</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/sticky-position-block-support/\">Sticky position block support</a>  </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/minimum-height-dimensions-block-support/\">Minimum height dimensions block support</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/19/style-book-preview-of-blocks-in-global-styles/\">Style Book preview of blocks in global styles</a> </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>🎙️ </strong> New episode:  <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-80-wordpress-6-2-preview-gutenberg-15-2-and-15-3/\">Gutenberg Changelog #80 – WordPress 6.2 Preview, Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3</a> with Birgit Pauli-Haack and special guest Rich Tabor  </p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>On Friday, Rich Tabor, joined me on the Gutenberg Changelog episode #80 recording. We had great fun geeking out over the upcoming release of WordPress 6.2, Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3. The recording will appear at your favorite podcast app over the weekend. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Quite a few new Block themes arrived at the Theme Directory. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> at the WPTavern reviewed <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/lemmony-a-free-wordpress-block-theme-with-30-patterns\"><strong>Lemmony: A Free WordPress Block Theme with 30+ Patterns</strong></a>, a magazine style theme for publishers and bloggers alike. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Gooding also reviewed: <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/lettre-newsletter-theme-now-available-on-wordpress-org\"><strong>Lettre Newsletter Theme Now Available on WordPress.org</strong></a>, a theme suitable for writers and publishers to style their newsletters. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/maneshtimilsina\"><strong>Manesh Timilsina</strong></a>, a plugin developer from Nepal, and new member of the WordPress Theme team, published his first theme for the Theme directory and made it a Block Theme. Congratulations! The theme is called <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/zino/\">Zino </a>and described as a minimal,  lightweight, and speed optimized. It&#8217;s still a pre-release version 0.0.2, though. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The team at Automattic also released a new theme: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/bibimbap/\">Bibimbap</a>, named after a Korean dish, is a simple and fun restaurant theme. Sarah Gooding has the details in <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-releases-bibimbap-a-free-block-theme-for-restaurants\"><strong>Automattic Releases Bibimbap, a Free Block Theme for Restaurants</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brad Hogan</strong>, at <a href=\"https://blockthemespro.com/\">Block Themes Pro</a> published the first Theme in the Theme directory as well. It&#8217;s call <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/blockster/\">Blockster</a>, &#8220;a simple, clean, easy to manage block theme meant for non-profits, bloggers, freelancers and agencies&#8221; with four Style Variatons. It&#8217;s also used as a starter theme for #node site builders, creating websites for others. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sarah Snow </strong>and <strong>Kathryn Presner</strong> were the hosts of the workshop <strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/02/23/how-to-confidently-migrate-from-a-classic-theme-to-a-block-theme/\">How to Confidently Migrate from a Classic Theme to a Block&nbsp;Theme</a></strong>. The description reads: &#8220;Are you are worried about potential down-time on your live website if you make a mistake when switching from theme to theme? Would you like to learn how to move widget areas from your classic theme to a new block theme? If this sounds exciting, please join Sarah Snow in a live workshop to learn how to safely and comfortably migrate from a classic theme to a block theme.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/tetsuaki_hamano\">Aki Hamano</a></strong>  released version 3.2 of his plugin <strong>Custom HTML Block Extension</strong>, which extends  custom HTML blocks into a code editor, allows you to write code on a larger screen via a modal component! </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress doesn&#8217;t have a Pattern manager/editor for site&#8217;s yet. The plugin <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/blockmeister/\">Block Pattern Builder by Block Meister</a> has been my go-to tool for a few years now. I also use the pattern builder of Newsletter Glue. Now the developers at WP Engine released their Pattern Manager Plugin. <strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> has the skinny: <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-pattern-manager-plugin-now-in-beta\"><strong>WP Engine Pattern Manager Plugin Now in Beta</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Learn.WordPress published a new course: <strong><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/develop-your-first-low-code-block-theme/\">Develop Your First Low-Code Block Theme</a>.</strong> &#8220;By the end of this course, you will be able to&nbsp;build a fully functional, custom WordPress theme using very little code.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> published the <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/10/summary-community-themes-project-kickoff/\">Summary: Community Themes Project Kickoff</a>.</strong> &#8220;Over 20 members of the WordPress theming community gathered for an initial discussion on the proposed Community Themes project on March 7, 2023. The primary goal of the conversation was to gauge interest and discuss what this project might look like.&#8221; There were also a few outcomes, and a few open questions. Further Discussion will happen in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C03T2GLB97W\">#core-theme-projects</a> channel on the Making WordPress Slack space. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>If you want to follow along but don&#8217;t have an account yet, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/chat/\">here are the instructions on how to gain access</a>. </em> </p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2022&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly.  <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\"><em>The index 2020 is here</em></a></p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Carolina Nymark </strong>published another lesson on her site: <a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/how-to-filter-theme-json-with-php/\"><strong>How to filter theme.json with PHP</strong></a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>Here is how it works: WordPress loads a&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-develop/blob/trunk/src/wp-includes/theme.json\">default theme.json file (source)</a>. This file has all the default settings including colors and gradients. WordPress merges this data with settings from other sources, in the following order:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>The block itself (block supports)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The theme.json file in the active theme (and parent theme if applicable)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>User settings: The options in the Styles sidebar in the Site Editor</li>\n</ul>\n<cite>Caroline Nymark, fullsiteediting.com</cite></blockquote>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/felixarntz\">Felix Arntz</a>,</strong> software engineer at Google,  shared his experience switching his site from a classic theme to a block theme in his post: <a href=\"https://felix-arntz.me/blog/rebuilding-my-website-using-a-block-theme/\"><strong>Rebuilding my website using a block theme</strong></a> He recounts all the steps in details, and the minimal code editing he had to do. Arntz is also a member of the WordPress Performance team, so his study on the before and after performance piqued my interest. An excellent read.</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/michaelburridge\"><strong>Michael Burridge</strong></a> wrote <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/block-deprecation-a-tutorial/\"><strong>Block deprecation – a tutorial</strong></a> for the WordPress Developer blog. It walks you through the mechanics of block deprecation of static blocks, with step-by-step instructions. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Earlier this month, the team of the Block Protocol published their<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/blockprotocol/\"> WordPress plugin</a>. <strong>Eric Karkovack</strong> reported on it in his post: <a href=\"https://thewpminute.com/digging-into-the-wordpress-block-protocol-plugin/\"><strong>Digging Into the WordPress Block Protocol Plugin</strong></a> with an interview with David Wilkinson, CEO of Hash, the company behind the Block Protocol. </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>&#8220;Although Block Protocol blocks are developed with&nbsp;<em>no knowledge&nbsp;</em>of the applications that embed them, through&nbsp;the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://blockprotocol.org/docs/spec/hook-module\">hook module</a>&nbsp;they can tap into the embedding application’s native functionality anyway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This means that things like WordPress’s native image gallery, file uploading, text editing, and so on all work seamlessly within Block Protocol blocks, as if they were native Gutenberg ones.&#8221;</p>\n<cite>David Wilkinson, CEO of Hash</cite></blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Are you experimenting with the Block Protocol, too? I would love to connect with you and compare notes! Email at <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">pauli@gutenbergtimes.com</a></em> or<em> share some information  in the comments online </em></p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. <br />Have you been using it? Hit reply and let me know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right has-small-font-size\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>. </p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right has-small-font-size\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: Bangkok Taxi Ride by Birgit Pauli-Haack</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 11 Mar 2023 09:25:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:105:\"WPTavern: Toot the Word Survey Finds Mastodon Increasingly Important to WordPress’ Community of Tooters\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142628\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:113:\"https://wptavern.com/toot-the-word-survey-finds-mastodon-increasingly-important-to-wordpress-community-of-tooters\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5939:\"<p>More than 200 users on Mastodon who consider themselves part of the WordPress community, responded to the recent Toot the Word 2023 Survey, which was conducted by the admins of five WordPress-oriented Mastodon instances. The purpose of the survey was to help those running these instances understand how important Mastodon is for the WordPress community and what they can do to improve their instances to foster a better meeting place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Key findings from the survey have been <a href=\"https://github.com/danielauener/toot-the-word\">published</a> alongside the <a href=\"https://github.com/danielauener/toot-the-word/blob/main/toot-the-word-survey-2023.raw.csv\">raw data</a> on GitHub for anyone to analyze. More than 82% of respondents (172/209) said they frequently use Mastodon. The community is active and Mastodon is an important social channel for those who have adopted it in addition to their other networks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A few other highlights from the published findings include: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Nearly all participants of the survey expect Mastodon to have some kind of influence on the WordPress community in the future, a majority thinks Mastodon will be very influential or extremely influential. Most of the participants want to see more WordPress content and community discussions on Mastodon in the future.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Generally, users on WordPress-oriented instances state that the communication with the community on Mastodon is important to their WordPress-related social media activity. They also are working with the community, or state that they are WordPress Community influencers, more often than users on common instances.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The survey also found that the respondents who rated themselves as important to the WordPress community seem higher in WordPress-related instances, which may mean that those looking for more relevant WordPress-related content and interactions are better-suited joining these existing instances rather than unrelated ones or creating their own.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;For me as an instance admin, it&#8217;s important to know that all the work I&#8217;m doing means something for the tooters on my instance and the entire community,&#8221; wptoot.social administrator Daniel Auener told the Tavern. &#8220;I think the survey has shown that many in the still small WP/Mastodon community see this network as important as I do. So I&#8217;m quite confident (as many of the surveys participants) that Mastodon will have its place in the WordPress community.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Administrating a Mastodon instance is not trivial. The users depend on the administrator to keep everything up and running with system updates, hosting, community moderation, curating community lists, and other housekeeping tasks. Auener said his current hosting costs are $20-30/month and they are 70-80% covered by <a href=\"https://www.buymeacoffee.com/wptoots\">one-time donations</a> and commitments on Patreon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;If nothing more, the [survey] results will keep me and my wptoots-instance going,&#8221; Auener said. &#8220;I even hope that the results will show others within the community that Mastodon as a social network is worth supporting and finding their own ways to contribute.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Auener hasn&#8217;t planned anything specific yet but based on the results it is clear that participants want to have more WordPress content in their timelines. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I think one of the best ways of achieving that would be to onboard more WordPress sites to the fediverse via ActivityPub,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Working in that direction is something I&#8217;m thinking about.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is an <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/\">ActivityPub</a> plugin for WordPress that implements the ActivityPub protocol for so that readers can follow your site&#8217;s posts on Mastodon and other federated platforms that support ActivityPub. It is currently used by more than 2,000 WordPress sites and is one avenue for users to automate sharing their content  across the fediverse. A search for Mastodon plugins turns up <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/search/mastodon/\">several other auto sharing plugins</a> and Jetpack is also considering <a href=\"https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/issues/7790\">adding Mastodon support to Publicize</a> after many requests on a ticket opened in 2017.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some Mastodon users on other instances have considered switching to a WordPress-oriented instance, so increasing education for users on how to move to a new instance is another improvement Auener is considering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;The data even seems to support that the quality of (WordPress-)conversation is better on our instances,&#8221; he said. &#8220;So spreading that information, helping people to move and keeping our instances a safe space for great WordPress discussions is another cause for action.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Joining Mastodon&#8217;s federated network is still intimidating for some who are not familiar with how the instances work and are not sure which one to join. Others fear they may lose out on interactions and connections by moving to a lesser-used social network. This survey indicates that the WordPress-related instances are active and important to the community interacting there. Auener has created a document called <a href=\"https://www.danielauener.com/the-wordpressers-guide-to-the-fediverse/\">The WordPressers Guide to the Fediverse</a> for those who are new and want to learn more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I would like to align my work more with the WordPress community and the work all the amazing people in the community teams and initiatives do,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I&#8217;m quite new in the game and think I can learn a lot from people working within the community for years. I think Mastodon/the Fediverse aligns very well with WordPress values but there is still a lot of convincing to do.&#8221;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 10 Mar 2023 22:43:55 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"Post Status: Launching a WordPress Product in Public: Session 4\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=148107\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://poststatus.com/launching-a-wordpress-product-in-public-session-4/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94416:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> continue laying the groundwork for the launch of their new plugin <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a>. They strategize ways to attract customers and agencies and gain full adoption as they integrate changes from user feedback. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">45</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> focus on preparing <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a> for launch. They discuss building launch assets, utilizing a freemium model as a path toward a premium product, and future possibilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Value of a Soft Launch</strong>. This is a great way to test the waters and get initial feedback. If you utilize a soft launch, you need to be willing to make changes and improvements based on that feedback before you fully launch.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Building a Sustainable Premium Product.</strong> Start by setting up a basic website and integration to attract customers. Establishing a freemium model allows you to identify what users will value enough to pay for and provides space for your plugin to become a recommended tool for users, agencies, and hosting providers as a premium product.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Feedback as Fuel</strong>. Gathering input from customers and agency owners in the WordPress ecosystem can help you understand the barriers to adoption, like already established workflows, the challenge of installing and learning a new tool, and limitations within initial versions to full adoption.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Importance of Image Use.</strong> Current workflows make images an afterthought in content creation, but they are critical to drawing interest, provide context, and evoke emotion. While there may be SEO value, the primary purpose is to appeal to human visitors. Creating tools to make this easier is the case for Crop.Express.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Consider the possibilities.</strong> As product creators, you should continue to explore potential opportunities for development. Leveraging AI, increasing user engagement, and offering more value can uncover future revenue streams while you focus on current integration points.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://crop.express/\">Crop.Express</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.canva.com/\">Canva</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop.html\">Photoshop</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.stockunlimited.com/\">Stock Unlimited</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://unsplash.com/\">Unsplash</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://contentjourney.com/\">Content Journey</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://news.ycombinator.com/\">Hacker News</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/\">Beaver Builder</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/pmgarman\">Patrick Garman</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/hluehrsen\">Hendrick Luehrsen</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://elementor.com/%5C\">Elementor</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/renewabelle\">Jess Frick</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://pressable.com/\">Pressable</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.kadencewp.com/\">Kadence</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"http://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<h2>Session 4 Corey &amp; Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> [00:00:00] Uh, host status YouTube channel so we can hopefully period when that pops up. Oh, I&#8217;m signed into the wrong account, but yeah. Um, cuz it seems like people were commenting there. So session four live,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>we&#8217;re streaming, hopping out the chat because if people are asking us questions and stuff, I&#8217;d love to know about it and interact with it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. We&#8217;re live. Cool. YouTube, baby. All&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> right, let&#8217;s get it. You ready?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Internet.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Internet.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Famous. That&#8217;ll get us maybe a coffee, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hey everybody, welcome back to session four. [00:01:00] Corey and Corey launching a WordPress product in public. Today we&#8217;re gonna be talking about some website tweak continuing on from last week, and some feature discussion that the other Corey&#8217;s been working on. Um, and we&#8217;re&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> live, Corey, we are Awesome. Session four.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s, that Marks four weeks. Um, and two what, two weeks or a week since, uh, the plugin was accepted. Um, and we should go look at, uh, let&#8217;s see, word press. I&#8217;m looking at the plugin. In the repo, it still says fewer than 10. So, you know, the harsh reality right, is, is you launch something and you get really excited and you tell your friends about it, um, and the, the repo, and you go and, uh, or.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>One, not necessarily [00:02:00] me, goes and installs it on as many websites as I own, which is a lot trying to make, you know, total, um, what do they call vanity metrics to make it look like we&#8217;re installed on a bunch of websites. Um, but the, you know, the plug-in repo only gives you fewer than 10, and then groups of 10, and then a hundred groups of hundred.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you never really know how many installs you have.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I think this is the moment, uh, when you push your art or your work into the light of day in public and you&#8217;re like, the tendency is to go, oh man, I thought a million people were gonna activate this. I think we&#8217;ve been really reasonable and practical about it, but I just know from my past is you, you get so excited, you think you&#8217;re on the right path.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;d launch it and you&#8217;re like, Crickets. Cool. Crickets are trippy. Right? Um, [00:03:00] man, that&#8217;s happened so many times and you know, the typical marketing thing is to go, okay, build up buzz to a launch. You know? And we were like, we did it . Here it is . And I, I, I don&#8217;t know how you feel, but I personally would rather launch something than build.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I, I know it&#8217;s probably better from a marketing perspective to build up to a launch to use things like product launch formula and stuff like that to like create a compelling story and I&#8217;m just like, or you could push publish. Right. You know, and I think we&#8217;ve had reasonable expectations about it. Not that it would hit a million, you know, active installs or anything like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but this is the point where I tend to probably have that little moment of deflation. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m shoving past that. I&#8217;m like, you know, because we, we didn&#8217;t have a big email list to send it to. We&#8217;ve been [00:04:00] putting in post status in our personal channels. Um, but we talked about last week, like key thing was like feedback from people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I knew on my list was to talk to content journey about this. Um, because they do so much content production, those people in the use case, the avatar that like does it all the time. Um, but to me, Corey, I&#8217;m curious, your, your perspective on all this too haven&#8217;t launched so many products is there&#8217;s, you, you wait for that cataly moment where you go, we got something.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, you and I feel had that together. Cause we&#8217;re like, I want this, you know, but now we&#8217;re building to some unknown moment where it&#8217;s like, okay, we got something. Well, and it&#8217;s,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> yeah, it&#8217;s getting something out there. I, I view where we&#8217;re at. I, I. Have done it dozens of times and I view it as a soft launch.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right? So it&#8217;s, uh, we put it out there. Um, [00:05:00] and frankly I&#8217;d rather it build slowly and then, uh, at some point we are going to have, you know, we we&#8217;re technically at version 0 0 1. Um, and so at some point we&#8217;re gonna launch. Zero one or one . And that&#8217;s when we, in my mind, you know, marketing actually starts, or we put effort into it, or when we start, when we&#8217;ve got, um, something for sale.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, that&#8217;s when we start putting effort into okay, getting it out there. But to me, this is, this is the soft launch. We want a few people to wander into our restaurant, hopefully, at least some of them are friendly faces and they&#8217;re the ones that are gonna be like, um, you don&#8217;t have any knives, which has actually happened to me over the weekend.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We went to a soft launch of a new restaurant and they literally didn&#8217;t have knives. And so I, we were eating chicken and waffles with plastic forks, and so you had to stab the whole chicken breast and like, [00:06:00] take a bite and then put it back down on your plate, you know, but it&#8217;s like great work out the kinks.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, the, the thing I struggle with honestly is getting, That there&#8217;s times when I build a product that I immediately start using. And, and so to me now the, the difference of a soft launch is, is just building something for me to use it. Um, and here I&#8217;m not yet comfortable, and this is something I&#8217;ve been sort of asking myself about.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like I&#8217;m using it on a couple of my own websites, but I&#8217;m not yet putting it in front of my clients other than showing it to them. But I haven&#8217;t like, installed it and told them, this is what you&#8217;re now using. And so I&#8217;m still looking at the UI and, and going, okay, why, what, what features are lacking?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, or you know, why don&#8217;t I have confidence in [00:07:00] the, we&#8217;ve, to me, we&#8217;ve technically proven that we can solve the problem, but it&#8217;s not. Elegant enough or friendly enough or simple enough for non-technical people to use. Um, so that&#8217;s kind of where I&#8217;m at. And so I, to me, I feel like we&#8217;re waiting for feedback from all quarters, um, including our own, before taking more steps forward with the actual&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> product.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s an interesting thing, uh, that you said right there is, um, because I went, obviously installed it, used the live version on my site, and, um, immediately I was like, I need, I still need this. I&#8217;m not, I know I need it for featured image, you know, but I ne I feel like just from a user perspective, I go, I need this for other [00:08:00] things on my site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like mm-hmm. , I was doing a page on my personal site and I was like, And this comes back to our original conversation, um, being able to crop things appropriately in WordPress. I already bump up to my bet still on this cuz I, I want it as the custom specifications. Um, I found myself, I think I used, you know, the circle thing you did?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Uh, the circle crop. I was like, I needed it for something. It wasn&#8217;t a blog post. So, you know, there&#8217;s this perspective of like, I, I know you&#8217;ve been, this flows into our conversation about feature product features and stuff you&#8217;ve been exploring with the media library. I was like, okay, I need a place that I can just like get my images cropped with the size and, um, you know, DPI or whatever, uh, for these things.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m like, this would [00:09:00] be cool to have. I actually use crop.express. I think yesterday for something, right. And I was like, the utility of it. Mm-hmm. still rings true for me. I just need this utility. But I was like, you know what I need, I just need to crop something real quick. I went to crop.express Yep.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And used the live, the online tool. Yep. Uh, for it. So I&#8217;m curious your thoughts too about, okay, so when you&#8217;re doing a WordPress website, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re publishing, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re creating content and stuff, and it brings back like just an exploration, I&#8217;m not saying we do this, but like your thoughts on media library in the center of, okay.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ve created, I, I&#8217;ve loaded my photo, this whole hassle of doing all this, finding photos, cropping photos, all that stuff. And. The utility of like being able to manipulate this and any, any updated thoughts. And maybe we just go straight into the product stuff you&#8217;ve been thinking about.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> But yeah, I, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the [00:10:00] segue.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, cuz I personally also had a couple of images to crop and was like, okay, I can create a post. I can for the, for the sake of the exercise, I&#8217;ll create a post, I&#8217;ll crop the image and then I&#8217;ll delete the post. And that cropped image is now in my media library. So to me the next, uh, short, short circuit sounds bad, but the next shortcut, there we go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s the good version is I go directly to media library and can manipulate an image. Um, and so I started working on that, um, as kind of the next step cuz it&#8217;s it without hearing, um, again, The having without having too many of these kinds of conversations. I&#8217;m like, okay, well I&#8217;m gonna continue to solve the problem that I have because again, this, you know, the assumption is presumption is that you and I have this, have a problem that a lot of other people have.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, [00:11:00] uh, so featured image, uh, and then the same functionality in ui, uh, on top of the media library, which is coming along pretty well. Um, and then, uh, I actually have classic editor installed. Um, something that I think is gonna come up, uh, pretty often in, in our conversations is that I am, uh, I, I do not go near the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and, uh, for a number of reasons and that&#8217;s its own conversation. But, and, and that isn&#8217;t to say that we don&#8217;t have plans, um, and even some code already for. A block that also allows you to crop images. Um, but, you know, for my own uses, I&#8217;m gonna, IM implement this into the classic editor before I implement this into the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Unless people start telling me like, oh my God, we [00:12:00] need this in the block editor. Um, and again, not to say that that&#8217;s not like next on the list or, you know, within the next few items, but, um, but anyway, so that&#8217;s, you know, to me that&#8217;s, I, I&#8217;m with you. Um, and I think I had, I had also pinged you and, and earlier in the week and said to sort of start the conversation of like, what does, or maybe it was last week, but anyway, like, you know, what, what does the new website look like and how do we implement those same functional, that same functionality?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because also, The plugin now has the circle option and crop.express. The website does not. Um, and so as I&#8217;m getting more and more comfortable, essentially repeating the functionality and the ui, um, you know, we wanna decide on what that lead magnet crop.express as a wide open, pure web utility for cropping images [00:13:00] as, as lead magnet.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like what does that look like? So,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> yeah, I, utility of it is I love utility tools, you know, um, yeah. And the, the question I wrote down here, will, will, is I think we&#8217;re trying to answer is what will enough people value to pay for. In, in the sustainable premium product type category. And again, just anchoring back to finding the past. And so it&#8217;s like if you&#8217;re creating content online, um, professionally, you, you probably have this utility somewhere like mm-hmm.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Camba or Photoshop or whatever that, you know, you affinity designer. And then anchoring to WordPress is content [00:14:00] producers, I think. Mm-hmm. generally speaking. Um, so, and then we&#8217;ve got these two things. We&#8217;ve almost got two potential use cases that you started this project through the online tool. Now we have a plugin and probably, I don&#8217;t know, do you think we need to talk about those two things too?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>How we keep, uh, like do we keep parody with online tool? Tool and the plugin kind&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> of thing, or I think we start with it anyway. Um, and, and I think that that gives us the sooner the, so to me, yes, like the down the road is the pro version, what are people gonna pay for? Um, but if we are walking the steps of setting ourselves up for freemium, then we need, we just need users full stop, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:00] And it&#8217;s like, wait, what can we, what&#8217;s the first thing we can start talking about? And normally that&#8217;s the plugin. And so I&#8217;m in forums or I&#8217;m, you know, in Facebook groups or whatever, and I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m mentioning it. Um, and again, I think we&#8217;ll start to see a trickle of users. WordPress, just na natural discovering.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Discovery within the WordPress, um, plugin directory. But if, if we are happy with the UI that I&#8217;ve knocked together, then moving that, setting that up, uh, on Crop Express and then, um, and putting a little banner that even links to the free plugin. Need this for WordPress, you know, click here. Um, again, we&#8217;ve already got way beyond the WordPress world.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ve got, uh, you know, there&#8217;s so many websites that just let you list that love to list free utility tools. Um, and so to me that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s [00:16:00] an, an easy way to. Have something to talk about even beyond, you know, again, my normal situation is I create a free version of a plugin and then I have to go try to talk, you know, show that to people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And inevitably, lots of the people who see me plugging it are going, well, I don&#8217;t use WordPress, so it&#8217;s not even the beginning of a conversation. So here we&#8217;ve got an extra advantage, you know, I think we could take advantage of that.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. Since it&#8217;s already built, like we talked about last week, it&#8217;s a, if anything, it&#8217;s a great lead magnet.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Okay. So, I mean, I guess what I&#8217;m picturing, you know, is, um, like we, we&#8217;ve started sort of what I put on your to-do list last week is, you know, the, the envisioning of this over time. Um, but I guess I&#8217;m picturing even in the short term, like a landing page and. And [00:17:00] then I can, and then again, I can integrate the, the cropping tool, utility tool, um, and keep chipping away at the plugin essentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but that gives us lots to talk about, lots to promote. Um, and again, lots of, lots of different, hopefully different places to start collecting feedback because yes, we launched. It&#8217;s fun. Um, but like you said, then there&#8217;s that little like, okay, now what? And, and then, and then it&#8217;s the feedback. It can be internal feedback, but we, we need some guidance on what we do next.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> swag. S always swag. Come on, . I mean, you created the new logo.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, that&#8217;s right. So yeah. On, you know, uh, as far as accountability goes, I think&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> you had more fun. Did the logo than the plugin, by the way?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, always, always. Yeah. No, it&#8217;s, I, there was a [00:18:00] time, uh, that I fancied myself a designer and I missed that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And once Design switched, and this is me dating myself, but once Design switched from Photoshop to, um, technically Illustrator, but I still actually use, I used the fla, I used Flash, and now I actually still use Animate, which is the, the modern version of, but I just like their vector designer. Easier, better.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I also design a lot of logos now in Canva. Same thing, like I love the simplicity, I love the constraints of it. And so it&#8217;s just you, you take away and take away and take away. And you saw me do that. Like I was sending you comps where it was not necessarily complicated, but there was a lot more lines.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the moment where I was like, that&#8217;s, it was when I deleted most of the lines and it was like, oh, the essence of what I&#8217;ve been trying to accomplish is there. Um, but yeah, I, I, I love, I [00:19:00] mean the books behind me here, the books next to me are, uh, you know, are bowhouse, uh, graphic design, like, nice. I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t have code books next to me,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Everything I have next to me is, is architecture or graphic design or, you know, some sort of&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> visual. Okay. So  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>this is what makes product stuff fun, um, and engaging. So I&#8217;m anchoring back. Um,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>we need, I, I think we, we&#8217;ve talked about this a lot and it&#8217;s like, we need someone to give us feedback. And so that&#8217;s where it was talked to. Content journey.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another thought here [00:20:00] is  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>asking agency owners mm-hmm. people that build sites and getting there, because I, I, we&#8217;ve talked about this a lot. I, we think agency owners in the, in the WordPress ecosystem essentially, um, end up. This is my perspective, but I want to hear yours. Buying plugins, functionality, things like that for their client&#8217;s websites, whether they use their key, their premium key, or whatever it is.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and that&#8217;s a whole separate issue. But I&#8217;ve tended to see, you know, we want to do this, uh, we need this for, the client will buy it. Whether we pass it on the client, we just absorb it. You know, the gravity forms, ws any kind of form plugin, I bet you is on like 90% of client websites for the agency going, you need forms, you&#8217;ve gotta have forms.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and it seems to me it&#8217;s like if we fit [00:21:00] this in the story agency owner, freelancer builder, person delivering a site for a client where I&#8217;ve seen the most. Use cases just from my themes and different things, is like they&#8217;re gonna use their website or it&#8217;s a, like a content production agency like content journey or whatever else.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or a blogger, professional blogger, creator using this to speed up workflow now. Mm-hmm. , how does that sit with you? Like, we&#8217;ve kind of, I feel like we&#8217;ve defined this case of like, if you&#8217;re producing content on a regular basis, this could be a tool in your utility, in your workflow. How does that square, and what are your thoughts here about like, I like talking to agency owners because then they might, might be the number one customer binded on behalf of their clients so they don&#8217;t have crappy, you know, huge 15 megabyte files on their site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t know what, what are your thoughts there? Because I, and, [00:22:00] and sometimes I go really slow on this and ask questions because I&#8217;m trying to get it, when it gets clear in my mind what we see, it&#8217;ll help. I think it really helps me personally to go here, you know? What are your thoughts on that?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, I think, I think that that&#8217;s fine.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, I just, I guess I&#8217;m not clear on how we do that, right? Like we are, I, I guess what I&#8217;m finding in, in me taking the leap forward in implementing this into the media library is that we&#8217;re not, not quite, like we&#8217;ve got the, I don&#8217;t know, the cardboard version or something. Um, and so it&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t actually anticipate.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the things I also realized was if, uh, If you, if you have already have the perfect image, like one of the, okay, [00:23:00] so sorry I&#8217;m a little all over the place. I didn&#8217;t sleep well, so I&#8217;m not as coherent as I&#8217;d like to be, but bear with me. Um, if, sorry. One of the most difficult things in what we&#8217;re trying to do, what anybody is trying to do product-wise is unless you have a brand new thing, um, you are, you&#8217;re walking into or you&#8217;re trying to get people to switch.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So like you said, people already have a process for editing, editing images, they&#8217;re already in Canva. So how do we get them to. Take an afternoon, you know, and install the plugin and say, okay, for this next post, instead of using Canva, I&#8217;m going to use this plugin. Um, and, and so that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s tricky, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because we also only have one opportunity to get it right, right now. I mean, people will try again, at least a free version. Um, but I feel like [00:24:00] we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re still a little shy of solving the problem enough so that people are gonna keep it installed. Like one of the things again that I realize that isn&#8217;t there is if you already have the perfect image, we force you to crop it  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and we also, uh, like we&#8217;ve talked about, we don&#8217;t have, uh, we&#8217;re, you know, we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve put in a handful of Square 16, nine. Four three. Um, there isn&#8217;t a way to customize that, and we&#8217;re talking about charging for that down the road, which is fine. But again, right now, are there gonna be enough people that are coming in and going, you know, I only need one of these five and that&#8217;s sufficient.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um mm-hmm. , I&#8217;ll keep this installed. Um, and then again, for me it was like, oh, but I could go over to Media Library and upload any old [00:25:00] image. So it&#8217;s like we, we&#8217;ve, we, we have a proof of concept, which I think is great, but I, I also wonder that we&#8217;re not a little premature in calling it a product yet. Right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, or, or how do we, mm. How do we get people to install this and it might, and, and leave it installed or, you know, promise to come back in a month and try it again, or like, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re not hurting ourselves by having it in the repo. It gives us something to talk about, gives something, you know, a place to link, all that kind of stuff.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, But now, I guess, you know, getting, going all the way back to one of your first questions, uh, or the first things that I talked about on this call was, um, where I&#8217;m at is usually I, this is where I start scrambling to be like, oh, you know, now that I&#8217;m public, oh crap. Like people are seeing that the wheels are on my go-kart or square and I need to quick chisel them to [00:26:00] be C circles or they&#8217;re gonna make fun of me kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and so it&#8217;s, you know, there there&#8217;s a little bit of a, like, what, what do we, you know, what is the next thing that we have to do to get people to actually keep trying this, um, or stick with this or, or what have you.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Okay. I wanna go back to a couple things. You said, this is a powerful statement. You said keep it installed, okay.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , I love that because it centers us sneakers us down in, like, we&#8217;re a utility workflow at Flow tool. And the question becomes how do we. Keep it installed. How do we, what do we do to keep it installed? And then we have this other fine line of like, there&#8217;s a breaking point. We go, that&#8217;s paid. This is free, that&#8217;s paid, you know, particularly with the free right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so Hendrix has given us some interesting thing, and if you will, I want to explore this for a second because you&#8217;re on the media library. So Hendrick [00:27:00] said media. We&#8217;re talking to an agency owner right now. It&#8217;s awesome. Thanks. Hendrick. Media management. The media library is crap, easily leads to the same images being uploaded multiple times, identifying problems, what we&#8217;re doing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we&#8217;re chasing that problem a little bit. Editing is another issue. This results in other stuff. For content, Leon is subtly necessary again. So if I talk about, it&#8217;s interesting maybe your client thing. How, how do you, your, your newspapers and magazines that you work with, what&#8217;s their flow? And this is the thing I need to just ask.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>From Content Journey two on my side, and I didn&#8217;t do that. Apologies. Um, Hendricks is helping, but like, what&#8217;s their content workflow? Do they, like I know Content Journey starts in Google Docs. Mm. And does a lot of their collaboration. Uh, then they put it in here and then there&#8217;s image like from in Hendricks, he&#8217;s like, media.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, we know this media library has needed something in [00:28:00] WordPress for a long time. So I think we stumbled into a really good problem here. Um, but like, what&#8217;s the workflow? You know, like me, I go, I start writing headline, start into text. The last thing I do is the image, but I take it professionals have a different way to do that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, I, I guess I do this semi my professionally, but like , you know, that&#8217;s the&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> people. It&#8217;s not your job title.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. . Um, that&#8217;s the people that use it as a workflow tool. And I think you, you mentioned something else, the switch. Mm-hmm. . The switch from co. I think it&#8217;s really cool cuz we got cobble these together over here and then put it in a WordPress and published, but we&#8217;re trying to say, we&#8217;d like to make that better within WordPress.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What I don&#8217;t know for sure I&#8217;m unsure of is how most professional content people do this. Mm-hmm. , you know, do they go [00:29:00] checklist beforehand? Image title, like, I know Content Journey has a whole SEO and content stuff and process they work through. Right. Thoughts on that?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> About the media library? The, the, the clients I, I have do not use the client, the media library they are uploading, um, on one site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cu it&#8217;s a custom size and a 16 nine, and then on the other site it&#8217;s square and 16 nine. There&#8217;s, I, I had to add essentially multiple featured images for each story. So it&#8217;s like on the homepages and on the archive pages, we show squares, and then when you click through to see the individual post, you see the, the big 16 nine.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but exactly as, and I&#8217;m, I have the same question mark as you, like, this [00:30:00] is where they&#8217;ve arrived. But these are, and these are professional writers, but they are not experienced WordPress people for the most part. So this is the flow that they&#8217;ve settled in on. Um, but yes, content comes from Google Docs.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Same thing that I&#8217;m, I&#8217;ve seen almost everywhere that I&#8217;ve worked where there&#8217;s a lot of content. So I think that that&#8217;s very, I think that&#8217;s the most common situation. Um, and then, and images are last is also the thing that I have also seen with both, with the, the, the number of sites that I work with now and have worked with in the past, even at big, big agencies on, on sites bigger than, than what I work on now.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Images come last, they go and hunt for somebody goes and hunts for an image after the content is written. Um, and like I said, what I&#8217;ve got, I mean, this was why I created [00:31:00] crop.express as a utility in the first place, was I, I said this, they can&#8217;t just keep uploading. These are, these are writers, they&#8217;re non-technical people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it&#8217;s, there&#8217;s the shame on them, shame on me situation where. I&#8217;ve tried to teach them, or I, you know, and created documentation and stuff like that around proper crop image cropping and image compression and all that stuff. But at some point I have to say, okay, you know, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m the technologist here.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Technology needs to do this for them. And so that&#8217;s where, yeah, I, I think we&#8217;re on the right path featured. I, and that&#8217;s why when you initially suggested, let&#8217;s start with featured image, I jumped, I was like, yes, that&#8217;s it. Um, see,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> you pointed that out to me though. I want you to know this. Hmm. For context, because you&#8217;re in work doing [00:32:00] client work.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know what a featured image is. , you have clients using that? We use it at post status and I don&#8217;t like it. Like mm-hmm. , the featured image the way that, or I haven&#8217;t taken the time to take the theme, so like, blown out. Huge PI pictures down. I haven&#8217;t taken the time to dive into it, but you&#8217;re like, most every theme includes featured image functionality, so there&#8217;s step one, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. I wanna zoom out for a second, Corey, if you, if you&#8217;re okay with this, we&#8217;ll get, we&#8217;ll get back to the product, but this will help me, this discussion. Yeah, sure. Images in publishing, what&#8217;s their purpose, what&#8217;s their reason? What are the people trying to get out of them? The two things I stand out to me is something to hang your eyes on.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . Something to set the tone of the content you&#8217;re writing. That&#8217;s one. Second to me is like SEO value. You know, put an image in here of. Someone [00:33:00] doing or showing the thing you&#8217;re talking about. So there&#8217;s a, there&#8217;s an SEO angle to it. Those are my two tops. But can, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m doing this on the mind map by the way, cuz I want us to get this story.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is the narrative to me. Sure. But like, if we zoom out, we just go like, what&#8217;s the purpose of an&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> image? Yeah. I mean the, the, I&#8217;ve got paper magazines behind me, um, which is what one of the main sites that I work on. And in a magazine you can&#8217;t not have a picture. And so it, it translates to the web where, you know, we&#8217;ve nerds like me go to Hacker News and there aren&#8217;t images unless you click through to the story or read it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of the time there, there isn&#8217;t necessarily an image. Um, but I think for news sites or sites that are meant to emulate a magazine, I mean we call them blogs, but you know, which came first kind of thing. Um, , you need an image. And so with the [00:34:00] magazine that I work with, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s sometimes there&#8217;s photography, there&#8217;s dedicated photography.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>They do a lot of fashion spreads. So that&#8217;s, you know, original content. But there&#8217;s also a lot of stories that they go to uns Unsplash or you know, stock Unlimited and they&#8217;re like, we need a picture of a pencil because this is about the pencil factory. And that&#8217;s a bad example. They&#8217;d go take a picture of the pencil factory, but you know what I mean, like we need a picture of trees cuz this is about trees in the northwest and just broadly speaking and so, and then they crop that or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s that, that compelling image that that visual hook, like you said, um, I, I think there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s technically an s e o aspect of it, but for the most part I, I view it more as human cuz these stories don&#8217;t need. Images. Um, but the layouts that, that they&#8217;ve chosen, the [00:35:00] clients have chosen on very different sites, ultimately are very similar in that when you look at an archive page, the emphasis is on lots of compelling images because that&#8217;s what makes humans want to click.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. .&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So, uh, it, it capturing it and we&#8217;re getting ethereal and I love that because then we&#8217;ll have opinions that we come back down to and say, this sure takes away from this what an image is. Purpose is on a piece of content or on a website. So Hendrick said Emotionalize love that. I think he made up a word.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Provide context, draw interest context. Yeah, absolutely. So like I think about in this, um, and go with me here please, but I do a slide presentation. And I&#8217;m doing presentation in front of a bunch of people and I want it to emotionalize, evoke emotion, um, set the mood, [00:36:00] tone, um, context and stuff. But it&#8217;s always that, I think he said it in his last interest.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s drawing interest and like Yeah. Color to what you&#8217;re doing. Now, there&#8217;s a host of problems with that in the web. Cause you&#8217;re talking about like Unsplash different things. It&#8217;s like, I personally effing hate trying to hunt down an image. I&#8217;ve done the painful work of trying to write and share and now I gotta go find an image.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. So we should note that problem. I mean, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s an obvious one that we know about, but like, it&#8217;s still a problem that factors into what that person&#8217;s trying to get done.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yep. And I picture down the, I, you know, I think it&#8217;s, there, there is this, we keep talking about this workflow. Um, and what we, what we wanna do is shorten, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s different ways to quantify all the different steps in a workflow, [00:37:00] uh, length of time, ease, you know, general knowledge, um, things that hold your interest.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what we&#8217;re talking about is when we talk about pain, right, is there&#8217;s some steps that are absolutely required. So that&#8217;s another quantifi quantifying element, whether it&#8217;s a required step or not, but it&#8217;s broadly speaking, we&#8217;ve got req a required step of finding an inserting an image, um, that isn&#8217;t fun.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, uh, and we&#8217;re just trying to shorten that. And so we&#8217;re starting with again, Shortening, you know, people go and find images, bring them in. But then hopefully if they, once they&#8217;ve done that work, inserting it is inserting it into the context of the site as a snap once they&#8217;ve got our plugin set up. Um, and then down the road we can also look at integrations.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cuz it was like, [00:38:00] you came to me and you were like, crop.express as a website is great. How do we get this into WordPress? And I said, inserting this into WordPress is not a small lift, but I&#8217;m halfway done with a, with a Chrome extension. So you, again, shortening the step of like, instead of loading a website, just click a button.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>and it&#8217;ll crop it, you know, in a, in a Chrome extension. And then you and I got talking and it was like, okay, it&#8217;s worth it to do, make the effort to, to make this a WordPress plugin. Um, but, you know, trying to shorten all those steps, uh, and, uh, and integrate with different, uh, you know, capture people where they already are kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s, um, you know, if they&#8217;re already in WordPress, then um, then they can do cropping there. If at some point we find that people are using the website, [00:39:00] I mean, what&#8217;s, what&#8217;s to keep us from monetizing the website at some point, right? Like we don&#8217;t have to be a dedicated freemium WordPress plugin. Um, things like Chrome extensions, uh, not off the table, down the road.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we also could look at, um, integrating with Unsplash, with whatever other, um, Where people are finding, getting their images, finding their images, that kind of thing. Um, and to me, I guess it&#8217;s the, you said something a minute ago about, you know, what is the process and, and how do we know what the process is?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I guess to me, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m starting to add our functionality in front of, it&#8217;s like you have a storefront and you have lots of doors. And right now we&#8217;ve put some sort of, we&#8217;ve put our code in front of one door, which is the featured image door, but people might be walking [00:40:00] through the media library door, or they might be walking through the block editor door.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like all the ways that people are, WordPress is here, I&#8217;m here and Im, we&#8217;re doing something with images. And so it&#8217;s like, how do we catch people at each door at. Uh, interaction point of them images and WordPress, and so media library, uh, an image block, um, classic editor featured image, classic editor featured image, um, block editor, whatever I just said.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, a at some point, a c f, you know their forms. Again, any, the idea to me is however we can, we can get in front of people or in between people and images into WordPress.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. So, so at [00:41:00] this point, I guess what I&#8217;d say is we&#8217;ve both said a lot of words. . Maybe maybe rephrase the question like what it, you know, I, I, I, I mean I say that to be funny, but we&#8217;re talking about a lot of interesting things. Yeah. Some of it is ethereal. What is it? You&#8217;re, what, what is the question precisely that you&#8217;re trying to have us answer right now?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m zooming out&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> from our original thesis, uh, zooming out and trying to get a perspective, and I think you give me really good perspective of, you know, we&#8217;re a part of this process. Our product is a part of a bigger process. Like, last time I looked it up, we, we said, make creative chores fun. This is a chore.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like, I, I wrote this down too for us. I go, you know, my grandmother painted paintings and she was an artist and incredible artist and we&#8217;ve got a lot of our work in our house. The [00:42:00] frame that she picked makes the painting. I was looking at the art itself and I go, it&#8217;s beautiful the frame. Makes it, and it&#8217;s almost like images are the frame of it, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . So back down to utility for a second. I&#8217;m just trying to think. I think this is where we&#8217;re gonna come up with some bells to ring and some opinions of mm-hmm. images, image stuff in, in WordPress and anywhere. It kind of sucks. It&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a hunt, it&#8217;s a chore. It&#8217;s all that stuff when you&#8217;re just trying to get like powerful writing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s, the thing most people don&#8217;t do on their websites is do an image. Like I, I&#8217;m on this one book all the time, I love it. No images and it&#8217;s cool, but because she&#8217;s done the pain of creating the content, now it&#8217;s left to this final thing of the chore. But like, here&#8217;s an opinion. We could say images should be your frame of your contents.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, you know, we&#8217;re talking about emotionalized, wrong answers, provide context. So how do we do that Now, [00:43:00] back down. Thank you for exploring that with me a little bit. I&#8217;d just like to get this bigger perspective cuz sometimes Corey, I&#8217;ve been like, I wanna solve this one problem and I don&#8217;t see the bigger picture zooming out.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we can zoom back in too and just go like, in an ideal state, finding sizing, finding and sizing are two big design issues. Image, you know, in publishing.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And Hendrick just brought up another good one, which I deal with my clients all the time, which is broadly speaking, image metadata. Mm. And so it&#8217;s like, and it&#8217;s a chore and.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because they source images, uh, free images that, that need credit. Or again, they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re having bespoke fashion shoots done and they need to credit the photographer. Um, and all that kind of stuff. I saw, I just saw a plugin yesterday that is [00:44:00] integrating AI with WordPress images to write the alt text for you.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, which I thought was, I&#8217;m like, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a no-brainer. Um, you know, that&#8217;s a problem that&#8217;s desperately n needed to be solved for a while as much because humans are terrible at , this kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, and, and again, non-technical, non s e o people, clients don&#8217;t understand. They&#8217;re like, it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a picture of a house in front of two trees, like.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do I say cabin? Do I say house? Do I say trees? Do I say, you know, and it&#8217;s like, even if the AI isn&#8217;t a hundred percent right, I&#8217;d rather it, it, it did something , um, lit literal rather than humans overinterpreting. Cuz some of them were like peaceful setting and you&#8217;re like, no, that&#8217;s not a, technically you&#8217;re right, but that&#8217;s a house with trees.[00:45:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s not p Google doesn&#8217;t understand what a peaceful setting is, but it&#8217;ll, it&#8217;ll say, it&#8217;ll know that it&#8217;s a picture of a house with trees and read the article that about a peaceful setting and then it will connect the dots. Obviously I&#8217;m being presumptuous about how Google works, but you know, I think that there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s definitely times where there&#8217;s too much human interaction and whatnot.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m ranting, but I do think that part of the bigger problem as we&#8217;re trying to define it here, finding images or sourcing images, images getting, um, inserted correctly. For the theme, for the site, for the design, um, and then metadata. So it&#8217;s that whole last, um, you know, if it&#8217;s a Gantt chart, it&#8217;s the, the last chunk of that Gantt chart of, okay, my story is ready to go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Oh crap, I need an image. And everything that, that involves finding the image, inserting the image, resizing the image, making sure all the metadata on the image is [00:46:00] correct, and then I can publish.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yep. Um, I think what this does for me too is help with marketing. Like when we talk about lead magnets is like, how do you source it?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s a easy blog, post lead magnet, something. Um, the other thing is a potential path for us, like we got one part of the thing that we&#8217;ve kind of said. Crop scale, get the right size, um, downstream. We have another path though we could take is like taking the other problem, which is finding, sourcing, not saying we should do it, just saying it is hundred percent option.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Finding sourcing, then. Correct. And it&#8217;s like trying to put this piece pu puzzle together. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> okay. It&#8217;s like the, there&#8217;s a lot of, there&#8217;s a lot of thinking, writing, talking now in the startup world about, sorry, I&#8217;m rising slowly with my desk, um, [00:47:00] but about not jumping in and building products, which I&#8217;m terrible at.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but at. Talking to customers first, defining problems, defining, letting them define solutions, and then that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re supposed to build. I&#8217;m too impatient. I&#8217;m a developer. I&#8217;m a hammer. Everything&#8217;s a nail. Uh, it&#8217;s a problem I have and I&#8217;m, and I&#8217;m fine with it. Um, but I do think that this helps us fill in some of those gaps that are necessary.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. And it&#8217;s like you said, if we understand the problem, we don&#8217;t have to solve all of them, but it, but the problem is what everybody wants to talk about. You know, you go to a meetup. I was on a, on a virtual WordPress meetup last night. Shout out to the New Hampshire, uh, WordPress meetup. That&#8217;s just getting started again after a long hiatus, which is awesome.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, but it, it inevitably turns into people [00:48:00] complaining together about similar problems. Oh, we all, all of my clients use, you know, such and such a page builder and it&#8217;s a pain in the butt. And like that&#8217;s how humans. Converse, you know, we share our pain and uh, and it helps us, makes us feel better and not alone.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And other people might have suggestions and yada yada. So it&#8217;s like, even if we don&#8217;t ever tackle the problem of sourcing images, it gives us plenty of blog posts to talk about our top 10 places for sourcing images that works really well with crop, you know, integrates nicely with Crop Express or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and helps our customers, our users, broadly speaking with what we know to be a problem overall, even if our product doesn&#8217;t necessarily solve it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So in your work with the media library, are you like in the media library going add new, pulls it up, and then Crop Express comes in? [00:49:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Okay, so it&#8217;s right now, yeah, it&#8217;s, you know, there is a button, right? You&#8217;re looking at all of your images and there&#8217;s a button at the top that says add new. Just like on every edit screen there&#8217;s an ad, new post, an add, new whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so the, what I have currently, again, I&#8217;m just proving concepts here, still is next to the add new I have, um, uploaded crop. So there&#8217;s a duplicate button because again, I&#8217;m starting to think that we need a way to bypass crop express so that if you want a featured image that isn&#8217;t 16.9, we&#8217;re not getting in your way.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because that&#8217;s how people, that&#8217;s when people are like, screw this. I&#8217;m gonna go uninstall this damn thing, cuz it, it&#8217;s too opinionated or it&#8217;s locking me into something. Um, and so we have to figure that out from a UI perspective or, or UX exp uh, perspective. But, but right now, yes, same, same exact thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just like in, [00:50:00] um, the, the block editor featured image, it opens a modal crop, your image, and then that sets your featured image instead of uploading an image into the media library and then using the, the very clunky WordPress image crop, it opens a modal. You upload your image, you crop it easily and quickly, and then it gets injected into the media library.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s really the same flow. Um, again, just trying to kind of be. Insert ourselves in between so that you&#8217;re doing the, the hard part quickly and easily before it, the image gets saved, which I also think is a huge feature. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> And I mean if we do it where the media library is in it&#8217;s now and train people on that workflow, like go there, um, potentially, cuz I was kind of thinking, and I&#8217;m not, don&#8217;t know the technical hurdles, [00:51:00] but back to the keep it installed, how do we keep it installed?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We make it an indispensable utility tool. So I was kind of wondering like you got featured image box on the right side of the post Senator and that&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;s right there. It&#8217;s very obvious. Upload, pick, upload, you know, and then crop. So we, we check that box, but I go, okay, back to the keep it installed, making a utility.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What did, do we, there&#8217;s one thought just gonna give these raw is that there&#8217;s a left side of the WordPress nav, there&#8217;s crop express menu item go in, they can start manipulating somehow. That&#8217;s probably tied in with the media library, non-developer. Um, the other option is using media library as it is.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Third option I was thinking about is right below that feature tab is like, here&#8217;s your, your handy utility tool [00:52:00] right at your fingertips when you&#8217;re in the publishing process. Um, because downstream, like if we did any one of the, like the left, left menu or the right side of the Post-it, I&#8217;m like, put the utility tool right at my fingertips.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. down down that one stream of like the finding. If we decide we want to maybe. to do this. At some point you&#8217;re like, it&#8217;s right there. You&#8217;re, you&#8217;ve done the hard work of writing your post now this tool over here, cause I know there&#8217;s Gutenberg Block h Big Hill to climb on that. So I&#8217;m like right here.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can, you know, it lays the foundation for saying find source potentially. Then step three or two is crop it and put it in. You know, we still have to figure out that gap between post editor, post block editor and here. But I go, I don&#8217;t know. Those are the three things I&#8217;ve been thinking about. But I want your, see what you think about that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, I like that [00:53:00] idea. Like what jumps out at me is, is a, so we&#8217;re talking about like, you&#8217;re in the dashboard, you&#8217;re not in the con you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s what is, what is cont what is the context, right? So I&#8217;m writing a post, I&#8217;m building a page. Um, And so I&#8217;m inserting images again, like we want, and that&#8217;s where the block I think comes in if people are using the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, at some point, I think before we started recording our calls, we talked about, like, I use Beaver Builder, um, and so, and they allow, you know, custom modules and so having a, like, you know, when I&#8217;m building a page or my clients are building a page, insert an image. It&#8217;s not just any image. You&#8217;ve, you&#8217;ve gotten, uh, the, the media library picker, but with our cropper installed again.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but anyway, the, the context of you go to media Library to upload and [00:54:00] manipulate images. I&#8217;m sure some people do that. I have a, I don&#8217;t understand the context of it, but I&#8217;m sure some people. Upload images or, or think about images separately, and then they want to go find them when they&#8217;re writing a blog post or something like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, to me, I, that searches WordPress searches terrible. And so trying to upload a whole bunch of images and then go find them out of the workflow, I can&#8217;t even imagine, but I&#8217;m sure people do it. Um, but all that to say, I like your idea of like, I just need to crop an image. I&#8217;m, you know, maybe it&#8217;s the fave icon or maybe there&#8217;s some other context we&#8217;re not thinking about yet, but it&#8217;s like instead of there being a crop express admin menu item, it would say crop and image or, and so it&#8217;s like, it might e and you&#8217;re right, it might even be redundant or somewhat redundant to the media library [00:55:00] integration point, but it&#8217;s like it saves you going to crop express.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The website or it saves you having the Chrome extension installed or whatever it is. Um, and so I like that idea of like, again, it&#8217;s, to me it&#8217;s, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re trying to sort of cast a net and so it&#8217;s wherever we&#8217;re catching people, wherever they&#8217;re dealing with images. Um, and then I just think that, you know, as we, as we continue on our journey, interacting with people, hearing feedback and stuff like that, that it&#8217;s all those points that are then going to be upgraded.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s like here&#8217;s, you know, three or four different contexts where people upload and crop an image. And then if we decide to tackle metadata, okay, so then here, you know, here are the three or four points where people are uploading, cropping an image, adding metadata, or we&#8217;re sucking in metadata or whatever, [00:56:00] again, before they hit publish.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if we can, if we can start with. all those integration points, but I think it&#8217;s, you know, we have to go where people are already integrating or are already interacting, um, rather than ex expecting them to come to us. And&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> without further validation, I go, I think I&#8217;d want it just for my own use case in the right side bar there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just like to figure and go, okay, I can go here to find that piece. That drives me nuts, which is an image. But I&#8217;m starting to think up here again a little bit and just go, what makes an ima if an image like in a magazine is there to evoke, uh, interest, emotions and all that, what&#8217;s this place? And this is where we get opinionated potentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like, what&#8217;s this place in a blog post on a site? Um, and like, [00:57:00] I don&#8217;t know about you, I just abandoned the whole thing because. Just as I, I guess I&#8217;m a design snob, even though I can&#8217;t do that very well, I&#8217;m still a snob about it. Um, but like I, I thought about the post I wrote yesterday. What would I do?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What would I do to evoke emotion and interest for the Post I did? You know? And, and that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a problem I bet with a lot of sourcing. I know content Journey does a lot of, I mean, I think everything they do has featured images, if I&#8217;m not mistaken. So I think we can get really opinionated about that for sure.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Especially with our magazine. Newspaper background is like, it&#8217;s about to set the tone, the flavor of what you&#8217;re trying to get across, what&#8217;s that intent? Um, and then we just come back down to the process of like, when you&#8217;re doing that, how does this process work? I love, that&#8217;s what I. To get more feedback on is [00:58:00] how people do that, because they probably go, you&#8217;re doing it all wrong core, you&#8217;re doing it at the back end.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You should do it at the front end. I&#8217;m like, okay,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> tell me more. That&#8217;s true, right? Yeah. And I mean, it&#8217;s all I can say is you and I, and pretty much everybody I&#8217;ve interacted with are,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t wanna say not professionals, but we, we all share the same problem. We&#8217;ve all arrived at the same situation where we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re developing written content. And the image is not necessarily an afterthought, but it&#8217;s the last step of what&#8217;s being handled. Uh, it would, it would be fascinating to me to, to find out that there is some, Doesn&#8217;t New York Times use WordPress or I, they, they&#8217;ve abandoned it and come back [00:59:00] again and, and one of the other New York Post I think does too.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and I, they left and came back, or white, white House or whatever. It&#8217;s like to me that those, that&#8217;s the epitome of . The, the WordPress workflow, right? WordPress publishing workflow is if you are, uh, the New York Times or similar and you&#8217;re using WordPress, and so it&#8217;s like, call up the president and find out if he&#8217;s looking for an image before he writes his blog posts.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Obviously a joke. He doesn&#8217;t write his own blog post, but that would be fascinating. But I bet we find that this is universal or, or damn near, you know, 80 20. Um, and so yeah, how. we&#8217;re starting with a very small problem that we&#8217;re solving. Where it goes from here would be fascinating. [01:00:00] I what what comes to mind is like, doesn&#8217;t Yost Pro let you put in some keywords and then it helps you rate your content based on those keywords or, or you know, it looks at search results or keyword points, you know, and how you&#8217;re gonna rate for those keywords kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, so I start to,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> yeah, I love that. Imagine some AI thing going down and going, here&#8217;s a couple of images we either found or created, um, on the site that flash him up a bit. I&#8217;m so funny about my content though, and I just, I&#8217;m trying to unearth a bigger problem here that could really lead a roadmap about is there&#8217;s a.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Seems like there&#8217;s a problem. It&#8217;s wonky. The workflow to, to frame evoke interest through images in your content. [01:01:00] Like when you said Element, uh, beaver Builder, and I put Elementor down to you, I&#8217;m like, oh, that&#8217;s right there in that workflow. Great business integration to do. I just talked to Robbie yesterday, by the way, so we could, we could follow up with Robbie on this and he might be a source of really good information.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;ll write down, follow up with Robbie&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> again. Yeah. Like what, what does the Beaver Builder team know about how people use their tool? Yeah. Are they, because&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> images are, oftentimes they&#8217;re lame cuz they&#8217;re being pulled from stock. We feel like we need &#8217;em and they just, you know, they&#8217;re obvious stock images, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Which&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> is, we&#8217;re all used the same ones. .&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Mm-hmm. . Yep. Which is interesting to me from an AI perspective of like, do something that actually more one off matches the content [01:02:00] and the, and emotions and outcomes you&#8217;re trying to evoke.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. I think we&#8217;re there like, I mean all I&#8217;m seeing for the most part is people on Facebook plugging in some of their images and seeing, you know, here&#8217;s me as Hercules or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but it&#8217;s the image generation or that, you know, the, here&#8217;s a picture of me in the style of da Vinci, or, you know, Monet or whatever, but I, I, there&#8217;ve gotta be people already using AI to generate images. You know, here is an article about X, Y, Z, generate an image, and then that way I don&#8217;t have to pay royalties, I don&#8217;t have to do any searching, you know, if the image is good enough and compelling enough.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, which is, I mean, also very subjective, like you said, yourself, you&#8217;re picky about your content. So, you know, would AI generated images be enough? I don&#8217;t know. Um, I&#8217;ve got a buddy who runs all of his [01:03:00] images of himself. He&#8217;s a dj and so he has his marketing site and he runs all of his images through like an in Instagram filter that&#8217;s one specific filter.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So all of his images look consistent and stylized. And so, you know, the image source is easy for him. It&#8217;s him DJing. Um, but the, the manipulation of the image. It takes a little bit of time, but it, that&#8217;s what makes all of the images of him look cool and different, you know, hip and with it cuz he is a, a dj.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, rather than just pictures of like, I mean, I, I DJ here in my office, the pictures don&#8217;t look like anything . I may as well be working. Um, yeah. So yeah, there&#8217;s lots of, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a big interesting step, uh, of the way we present ourselves [01:04:00] online. And some of it&#8217;s painful, but I also don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t know yet whether.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>like there&#8217;s lots of potential ways to integrate ai. I also think it&#8217;s early days of mm-hmm. , like the norms haven&#8217;t been worked out on, on how, how we can use it and how we want to use it. Frankly, like, you know, there&#8217;s for, for everybody who&#8217;s excited for every, everybody who&#8217;s, every person who&#8217;s excited about ai.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I feel like there&#8217;s also a person who&#8217;s very apprehensive about like, do I, you know, if every blog post needs an image and so we&#8217;re, but we&#8217;re too lazy to go find the perfect image, then I&#8217;m gonna press a button. AI&#8217;s gonna do its best, and then I&#8217;m just gonna throw that up there because my blog post, somebody told me I have to have an image, but I don&#8217;t really care if that image is, is honestly the best one.[01:05:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>are we contributing to, you know, or AI writing? I mean, it&#8217;s the same argument. It&#8217;s like if, if half the blog posts now are gonna just be written by ai, is it, is it worth it? Are we just continuing to pollute the web with bad writing? You know, we&#8217;re saying the same thing over and over again. So it&#8217;s, all of this stuff I think is really interesting to start writing about or talking about.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, for me, I, I still think some of the dust needs to settle, um, before we actually look at integrating this stuff. Unless, unless some obvious winner jumps out at us. Yeah, I like&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> it in view of here&#8217;s that conversation going. It&#8217;s gonna only accelerate. And then how do we position crop express where there&#8217;s a convergence point at some point.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, and I think we&#8217;ve identified it&#8217;s the finding sourcing part. All that back, back to here. Cause I wanna make sure I tie back down to ground earth cuz I [01:06:00] don&#8217;t always do this. I get thinking about this going, this is cool, this is something to chase. This is some validation for me of like interest. Um, but it, uh, then I go practical point is like having a utility tool to do my, it was just, so, like Patrick Garman, one of our agency owner members posted like his year end wrap up basically.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you know, looking through the post, I could have read it and imagined he was on an RV trip with his wife and they got to do all these things, but he posted some pictures along the way, you know? Mm-hmm. and, and that was the ideal use. Like seeing one of his picture RV two chairs and looking off, I was like, well that captured the moment right there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now he sourced those personally from his own camera and media library. Um, I&#8217;m like, if you&#8217;re doing that, You know, images come in from the iPhone, huge not right format. All this stuff, [01:07:00] being able to just go through my media library. You&#8217;re having the problem of like taking off your phone over to your desktop probably.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then you&#8217;re trying to upload it up there. That&#8217;s just a cluster by the way. Just feels like a cluster. But you&#8217;re like, okay, he&#8217;s done all that hunting, searching, finding. Now he comes in, he doesn&#8217;t wanna go to another tool, he is already done all, you know, potentially Dropbox it over. That&#8217;s how I do it anyway.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or, or air dropped it over. Uh, and it seems like when you&#8217;re in there creating the tools should be right there at your right side. That, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m leaning on these three things we&#8217;ve been talking about. Like media, library, carbon Express thing, and right here where I need it. Mm-hmm. , I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s the right, but it tend to be gravitating toward if we&#8217;re gonna make this into a utility suite, um, eventually.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Or want the possibility of it. It seems like that is a good way, is is a good thought, but technically I don&#8217;t know what the hurdles are. Um, you know, the already the post thing is just [01:08:00] like overwhelming to me anyway, but this would be one I&#8217;d want prominent if I&#8217;m gonna be using images.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. And, and I mean, what jumps in jumps in my, to my mind is again, down the road, it&#8217;s like we could start moving upstream and it&#8217;s like somehow you are doing, I mean, we&#8217;re just having fun brainstorming here at the moment, but it&#8217;s like, be the.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I, I, I, it used to be delicious. That went out of business. Now I use Pinboard, but it&#8217;s like the, you know, the bookmark keeper. So it&#8217;s like, imagine if like we, we could extend beyond WordPress or beyond, it&#8217;s like you&#8217;re out browsing the web or you&#8217;re on your phone or anywhere that you&#8217;re just kind of like, you&#8217;re collecting, you&#8217;re collecting, you&#8217;re, these are all the potential images.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and somehow they all get channeled into like, you wouldn&#8217;t really wanna do this because your media library would [01:09:00] fill up and most hosting companies limit your disc space, whatever. But if you&#8217;re like, you know, I&#8217;m writing a blog post about, you know, my, my RVing trip with my wife. It&#8217;s like, I. Throw images off my phone, I might go and try to source some images from Unsplash and if all of them landed in my media library, uh, cropped correctly, sized correctly, stylized correctly, um, and then I could, and then it, they were there for me to choose from or something like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s like, you know, that&#8217;s not, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a lot of things wrong with what I just described as an actual product, but, or problem to solve. But it&#8217;s like, we can definitely start looking at again, if, if we get feedback that&#8217;s upstream. Bless you. Um, upstream, you know, part of the problem of sourcing images or finding images or, you know, it&#8217;s like, or even getting them off of our, our devices and into WordPress, if that&#8217;s a pain, [01:10:00] you know, you&#8217;re, If you&#8217;re dropboxing it to your PC and then uploading it from your PC into your media library and then selecting it in your posts, then you know, what&#8217;s the, the one click?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like take it without signing into WordPress from your phone, you know, what&#8217;s the quick share to your WordPress install little utility plugin or something like that. I use a, um, an app on my iPhone called Flight that is free, and it&#8217;s basically for emailing anything to myself. Um, but it uses the share, so it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m browsing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Any website or I&#8217;m in Amazon or whatever and I hit the little share icon and where it gives me the option to airdrop or it gives me the option to post it to Messenger so I can send it to my wife or whatever. Um, there&#8217;s a, a flight option and it opens up a little icon. I hit [01:11:00] post and it sends me an email with a link to whatever I&#8217;m looking at, cuz I&#8217;m in my inbox all day.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s kind of my ends up being my to-do list. And so in theory, you know, again, if we find that this is a huge pain point, there&#8217;s a, I&#8217;m looking through images on my phone. I click share, I click the, the send this to my WordPress install and it&#8217;s preconfigured to crop 16 nine, then it just lands in my, my media library already ready to go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, these are problems we can solve technically, once we&#8217;ve defined that there&#8217;s enough people that want that kind of solution.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> right now you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re working on the media library thing, um, d but do you like this right sidebar thing? What&#8217;s your thoughts on having it? Do [01:12:00] you crop express you the tool, whatever next version, thoughts or whatever? I&#8217;m trying to think through, uh, product guidance and give you enough.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Sure. I mean, I think to me the,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>right now, the problems that I quote, unquote know we have because I have them and, and I want, if nothing else, I want you to be using this. I want my clients to be using this. I want, um, content journey to be using this is, um, featured image. Media library, uh, block editor, block, classic editor featured image.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are the four to me, the four known integration points of WordPress and images. And then, and then that way anybody who stall installs this plugin is [01:13:00] going to interact. I mean, if, and Beaver Builder aside, or these other scenarios aside, you know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a very long tail of integration points, but the four primary integration points are covered at that point.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s, that to me is the bay, the, the bare minimum of if anybody installs this plugin, they&#8217;re guaranteed to interact with our plugin and then we can start seeing if it works for people. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> The thing I wanna do on my own is, um, chase this. More metaconcept of like purpose of the image and then just look around and see, you know, where it&#8217;s like images, the opinion I um, thesis of happiness images should add value, not subtract or be a distr distraction.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>How does that get done? How do people source it? You know? Mm-hmm. , how do we get that thing? There is a SEO value, you know, [01:14:00] from a good image, um, in that, and I, I want to chase that a little bit cause I think it&#8217;s gonna help us, you know, downstream cuz like if we, okay. If we do the thing you were just saying, get all the integration points, the, the basis covered.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. That&#8217;s the free tool. Mm-hmm. to me. And then it&#8217;s like, you want more and better. And this is where we could explore downstream on the paid side is creation, sourcing, finding part of that. And I, I really like that because the free of those, like, here&#8217;s those points you&#8217;re gonna have and we&#8217;re gonna be utility, we&#8217;re gonna help make it easier, this problem easier, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and then what it saves us is some of this bigger picture stuff for pro and paid. Like you really want to get serious about it, about doing this better. [01:15:00] This workflow, this outcome you&#8217;re getting. Here&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> paid. Yep. There&#8217;s, there&#8217;s certain WordPress plugins. Because I deal with, because I build web apps, um, and or because I control what my clients see when they sign in.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I install user switching, uh, in, on many, many sites. I install duplicate pages. Like these are no-brainer, low lift, low impact. High value. You know, they add a button that frankly should exist in WordPress. And I think that&#8217;s kind of what we&#8217;re talking about here is like, yes, WordPress has cropping, but it&#8217;s dire.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we are adding simple, basic functionality that arguably should be there or should be upgraded at this point. But where we take that sky&#8217;s the limit. Yeah. But if we can get, if we get to the point, I like that we keep talking about utility, [01:16:00] essentially is like if, if we are the sponge, the, uh, the coat rack, the, you know, the basic thing that every house has to have, um, you know, then, then we&#8217;re just gonna watch installs happen.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , um, you know, that&#8217;s the dream, right? That hosting companies start recommending us because it&#8217;s just, It&#8217;s gonna save them support tickets. That&#8217;s the dream. Mm-hmm. . And then past that, all this thinking that we&#8217;re doing defines the the business.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Okay. Take this for a second. I just wanna quickly sidebar on something.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You hit another value add. So if for utility is, you know, making cropping easier, that&#8217;s our been our thesis. Um, you just put a use case. We&#8217;ve talked about beaver builder hosting companies. So I go, what&#8217;s a compelling thing? It&#8217;s okay. [01:17:00] Huge images don&#8217;t help anybody on the web. You know, h ginormous, it takes a dis space.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s, you know, bandwidth. It&#8217;s all those things that&#8217;s compelling. Mm-hmm. . So then I go, this is just over here. An idea for us, this is like if, if we, if we take that angle and make this like the rockstar utility and that&#8217;s our base. To showcase. Okay, well you wanna go more? Here it is. Okay. Why would he host recommended it?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like, well, maybe there&#8217;s a tool out here that does this, but like when you put an image, it&#8217;s like, hey, fyi, you&#8217;re think maybe there&#8217;s a module or in the free at some point it&#8217;s like, by the way, this is 1000 million pixels wide, big disk size, it&#8217;s not the right, like some of that&#8217;s in in WordPress already, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. True. So true, true. Getting some of those details [01:18:00] to prevent, like it&#8217;s kind of a, for the hosts, kinda like a prevention, by the way, this is gonna help you and the tool right underneath it, A free tool. Is it gonna help you crop that to the right setting? There&#8217;s a compelling value proposition.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , it&#8217;s like a, and this is 10 year old story, but my mom uses one of our themes and it&#8217;s got rotating images and she&#8217;s like, wow. 15 five megabyte files. That doesn&#8217;t help anybody. Doesn&#8217;t help the user. Right. Doesn&#8217;t help their visitor, doesn&#8217;t help the hosting company that checks a lot of boxes for a utility.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I almost wonder, it&#8217;s like conceptually you&#8217;ve uploaded an image to the media library and it&#8217;s like, hey, this is effing huge size it. Yep. So, I don&#8217;t know, I just want to see, cuz you know, technical, all the, the backend is like, conceptually speaking, you think [01:19:00] this is huge. You probably don&#8217;t even need it up here, but before we put it up here, we can make it better.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Right there. That&#8217;s compelling. It&#8217;s like, You know, people would recommend it and support, because this is a, I&#8217;ve heard enough of this that I think it&#8217;s probably an issue. It&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s not gonna help your bandwidth , it&#8217;s only gonna, you know, most of these hosts have, uh, visitors&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> caps and, and disc space caps and Yeah.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> And they&#8217;re solving it with CDNs and stuff on the other, you know, other side of it. You&#8217;re like, what if you could be proactive about it and help people get better images?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Right. Well, and that&#8217;s, I mean, like, that goes back too to the, you know, creating, creating images, helping users create images that work with the themes, the theme and the design overall.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s like if, if everywhere on your site you&#8217;ve got. Square images, why are you up uploading 16, nine featured image? You know? So it&#8217;s, um, you know, all part and parcel of, um, [01:20:00] the, the sort of cynical way of saying it is like protecting people from themselves. Um, but that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s like you said, on all fronts, the disk size, uh, or the image size, the space that it takes.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s bandwidth issues, um, you know, and making it look good the way humans view it. So, um, but yeah, I mean the, the upsell again, be by becoming a utility. Like there&#8217;s a number of, um, hosting companies that recommend certain plugins that have white list, white lists of recommended plugins or incurred, you know, and some of them I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t know.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m not on enough hosts anymore to know, like, do they come that most of them have their own plug-in installed, but they don&#8217;t necessarily like pre-install a bunch of plug-ins for you. But, um, you know, but again, all good marketing copy, um, good relationships to be [01:21:00] building and, and taking advantage of. And, um, you know, and we, and in, in, in the inverse right, is hosting companies that we recommend working with that are trying to solve this problem.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, kind of protect, protect people from themselves. If you&#8217;re non-technical, these are things, you know, ideally you&#8217;re not even having to think about. Well, and&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> give me another per person to put people to put on this. Um, asking about problems is hosting companies. Mm-hmm. , so probably hit up Jess from principal and some of my different contexts, but like from the utility value prop.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The alone. This doesn&#8217;t get us to revenue as fast, but it&#8217;s like, get installed or get recommended. Huge. So the value prop, like if we can hit the value prop for the user, the end user, the agency, the hosting in a very simple, elegant way, just solve these little problems. Yeah. It&#8217;s like we, we all become the [01:22:00] defacto, um, recommended tool.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like Hendrick was saying, okay, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s forms, it&#8217;s seo, it&#8217;s this, it&#8217;s that. You know, like, why not put it up there? Maybe we&#8217;re not that tier, but we&#8217;re second tier in that recommended of like making your images better for everybody. Mm-hmm. . So that&#8217;s what made me think about as you&#8217;re working on the media library stuff is simple ways to say, this is really big, you know, why don&#8217;t you like, hey, two, two parts, just one is it&#8217;s huge.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You don&#8217;t need it. You know, the file size is way too big. Way too big margin. The second I thought of is like, I didn&#8217;t think about this until you said this, but themes have recommended default ratios, right? So it&#8217;s like we can go back to Cadence, beaver, builder, elementary, whoever it is, and go like, can you give us those?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are those standard if we [01:23:00] can&#8217;t find them? But I was even thinking like, I wish that information was in the theme that could be displayed in there. It&#8217;s like, you need&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> four by three. Well, and there&#8217;s, um, like you can install a c f. If you own an A C F license, you can install a c f, um, you know, preconfigured essentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the client doesn&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s being used, but it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s integrated. Um, and so I&#8217;m envisioning ways, um, of our functionality being integrated with constants being defined in the code. And so it&#8217;s like you install the, uh, the golf course theme and it&#8217;s, and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s beautiful. If it has 16, nine images and so hard coded into the theme is anywhere you&#8217;re uploading an image, again, media library featured images, Gutenberg block is, you know, [01:24:00] all you can, it, it, it throws up the cropper and says, you know, the theme you have installed has 16 nine defined, you know, will let you break that if you want to, but, , you know, you, you should probably do what they tell you and then your site will come out beautiful.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and, and like you said too of like, um, I like starting that conversation. Like there&#8217;s a, there&#8217;s a chicken or egg, right? Like you can&#8217;t warn, you can&#8217;t tell people the image you&#8217;re uploading is too big. You should install the, our plugin if you, because that&#8217;s functionality we would build into our plugin, so they&#8217;d already have to have it installed.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But having the option, uh, or having it throw up a warning that&#8217;s like, you know, our, this is going to get cropped to a recommended 1200 pixels. We noticed that it&#8217;s, you&#8217;ve uploaded one that&#8217;s 10,000 pixels. Do you want, is there some compelling reason that [01:25:00] you want this bigger? Obviously, like we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re saying this conversationally, but.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I like that kind of thing. Like co you know, we&#8217;re helping people, we&#8217;re protecting people from themselves, but we&#8217;re not also, we&#8217;re also not gonna, like, like I said, right now, I think the, the product is too opinionated, um, that you can&#8217;t get around the plugin, which isn&#8217;t, you know, is gonna piss some people off.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but we can, we can help people conversationally or functionally as a user.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> This is a problem I&#8217;ve had forever, you know? Yeah. And as on the other side is you build a cool theme or product and people can make it as like, ugly as you want. You know? This seems like an idea to go, like we just need, I think we&#8217;re talking about first Dominoes is we&#8217;ve got hosting, we&#8217;ve got some set of use cases, like your clients come to Journey, different things.[01:26:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we&#8217;ve got theme providers. , that could be a domino for us because, you know, I just put down here Cadence and Kathy&#8217;s aunt because she&#8217;s doing, um, community marketing at Cadence and just going like, can you, can you give me a little bit of time? Tell me what the problems that users have with this and what you all have with this.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, seriously, we went to all this time and effort to make it a beautiful template and you effed it up, you know? Yeah. Um, and it&#8217;s like  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>the banner there is help, you know, this tool with this integration points, the four, I wanna write those down by the way, cause I didn&#8217;t get to write those down. But the four integration points, um, could be a way to get this adopted. Again, chick Egg, but like, cool. You know, is it interesting to you and I to make this a free utility that potentially builds a bigger snowball [01:27:00] down there?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> your answer? Hey, if we get internet famous off of a free plugin, I&#8217;m okay with that too. You know, like we, like we talked about on, in our first call, all of this is a bit of an experiment and, and I think we&#8217;re by, by talking about it publicly, we&#8217;re making it more of an experiment than it would be if we weren&#8217;t.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But we&#8217;re both, we&#8217;re both approaching it that way. We&#8217;re not, we&#8217;re not having a ha you know, meeting and having a hackathon and going, this has to make us a million dollars, uh, tomorrow. Yeah. And so there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s, and neither of us are, I, I think we&#8217;d both love it to make us some money or to lead to something that makes us some money.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, it becomes a, a, a revenue stream for us individually and or may it becomes a business, um, or whatever that looks like. Um, you know, [01:28:00] but we&#8217;re open to non-obvious or not immediate apparent, immediately apparent. Benefits here. And so, you know, being the person behind a utility plugin that has millions of active installs, some good is gonna come from that and probably some revenue in some way is gonna come from that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Even if crop Express becomes itself, becomes a lead magnet for some other plugin, we&#8217;d, if we crop express, we, we end up creating Image Express that integrates with all of the free image sourcing and, and that&#8217;s purely a paid product or something, you know, so, so that&#8217;s kind of, I think to me, we&#8217;re still there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> have image.express? Because if not, go by it. Please. , we&#8217;re all by for you because I think we need that. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> okay. Everybody listening is scrambling right now to go see if that&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> hang. You&#8217;ve got a five second delay, so see how fast you [01:29:00] type. Yeah. Okay. No kidding. . Takeaways? Takeaways and next steps. Um, I need to do my original to-do from last week, which is like, just have a conversation with a couple of these people on my list.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , um, you&#8217;re continuing to work on the integration points Media library is next. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. Anything else you need from me?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> I just wanna, sorry, ,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> he&#8217;s, he&#8217;s getting domain guys. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> nope, it&#8217;s taken.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hey, I mean, I, I feel lucky that, and of course it&#8217;s parked, um, I feel lucky that I got Crop Express and the other, the couple of other domains like that, that I have. Um, but, um, photo Express . But anyway, um, yeah, I, I feel like I continue to, my, my [01:30:00] to-dos are to continue to cover, cover those, those functional.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Feature the feature bases that we&#8217;ve talked about, um, those integration points. And you, you start having conversations about, like, cuz I, to me, we, we know, well we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re again, we&#8217;re still at truly laying the foundation. We&#8217;re pouring the slab. Like this is a no-brainer. No matter what kind of house we build, we need the cement that we&#8217;re gonna build off of.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I have no hesitation about continuing to build at least the, the next few features that we&#8217;re talking about. Okay.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Awesome man. Okay, I got my marching orders. How the combos yours keep your, keep on your work with the integration media library points. Um, yep. I was cueing up a question in the agency on [01:31:00] your channel to say, how do you use your, how do your clients use images?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ll wait until after my next meeting, which starts in just a minute. But thanks&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> brother. Yeah, great to talk to you again.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I love doing philosophy and productivity  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>but seriously, this is context for what I used to formulate marketing messages and approach, and I think it&#8217;s invaluable to product as we understand the problem, you know, and we&#8217;re understanding, I should say. Mm-hmm. , it&#8217;s always evolving and then we&#8217;ll find the point. But I really like where we landed, which is for.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Pre plug in super uber utility, keep going to those low lift things that we can kind of keep adding value with some avatars that we added, which is hosting agencies end user kind of thing. And then, um, just get, keep the feedback loop going. Yep. All right, my friends. You good? Thanks for your time. All right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bye.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:42:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Cory Miller\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"Post Status: Interview With Product Lead Brandon Dove Of Pixel Jar — Post Status Draft 144\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=148081\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"https://poststatus.com/interview-with-product-lead-brandon-dove-of-pixel-jar-post-status-draft-144/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34818:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a>, co-founder of <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a>, joins <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> to discuss his WordPress plugin, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">AdSanity Plugin</a>. They dive into the nuance of advertising, evaluate the benefits of free and paid plugins, and talk through the challenges and opportunities available to agencies that invest in product development while providing other services. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">45</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> talks with <a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a> of <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a> about agency product development. They discuss how the <a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">AdSanity Plugin</a> works and what lessons Brandon has learned about the relationship between agency operations and product development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul type=\"video\" class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\n<li><strong>Recurring Product Revenue.</strong>While it can be challenging for an agency to balance custom service work with product development, having a product that generates recurring revenue can provide a cushion and diversify the overall business revenue. AdSanity is a successful example of this, and the team is working on dedicating more resources towards the product to even out development between the two sides of their business. However, it can be difficult to maintain free plugins without generating revenue, and it&#8217;s important to consider how to incorporate them into the business model.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Value vs. Spam in Advertising.</strong> For many people, advertising has become a four-letter word, so there is a need to help customers become good advertisers rather than just spamming ads everywhere. It’s critical to empower your visitors by explaining the importance of creating a community around the site to allow for more meaningful conversations with visitors.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>The Point of Free Plugins. </strong>Building free plugins is more about passion and community engagement than being a lead generator. The main outcome has been connecting with people within the WordPress community, but those connections remember to come to you for solutions. So the increased exposure can lead to revenue in the long term.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-constrained wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<h3 id=\"GoDaddy-Pro\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Sponsor: <a href=\"https://poststat.us/godaddypro\">GoDaddy Pro</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flex wp-container-32 wp-block-columns\">\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<p>Manage your clients, websites, and tasks from a single dashboard with GoDaddy Pro. Perform security scans, backups, and remote updates to many sites on any host. Check up on site performance, monitor uptime and analytics, and then send reports to your clients. GoDaddy Pro is free — and designed to make your life better</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<img width=\"169\" height=\"169\" src=\"https://cdn.poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/godaddy-logo-square-bw.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85733\" />GoDaddy Pro\n</div>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show<strong>:</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">Ad Sanity</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://webdevstudios.com/\">WebDev Studios</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/avatar-manager/\">Avatar Manager</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.admincolumns.com/\">Admin Columns</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/wordcampnyc?lang=en\">WordCamp New York</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a> (Co-Founder, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> [00:00:00] Everybody welcome back to Post Status Draft. This is another interview in the series called Product People, and I&#8217;m talking to my longtime friend, uh, an agency owner and product founder Brandon Dove. Today to talk about Ad Sanity, a WordPress plugin that helps you, um, helps site owners. Um, Well, I&#8217;ll let you tell that in just a second, but , um, you&#8217;ll be seeing ad ad sanity on posts very soon cuz I meant to mention this before we started recording.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s something that we need. Need for the site. All right. And I&#8217;m like, great longtime friend product, product member, um, has the key solution. Anyway. Um, Brandon, would you tell us a little bit for those of you that don&#8217;t know you, and, and, uh, tell us a little bit about what you do, uh, your work in WordPress from both product and services side?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah, uh, thanks having me on by the way. And, um, yeah, so, uh, I run a, a company called Pixel Jar. [00:01:00] That, uh, we&#8217;ve been doing WordPress stuff for a very long time. Um, we started our business in 2004 and, um, you know, just, uh, through our work with not only clients and, and services that we provide, um, have, have found sort of a, a niche in building plug-ins for our, our customers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, some of those are great one-time use things for our customers, but. , in other cases, they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re bigger, sort of, um, needs amongst the community. And so, uh, our product Ad Sani launched from just such a, uh, an instance where we had a, a customer who was, who had a wedding blog that was highly trafficked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They had been using another plugin that was just tanking their site. And so at the time, you know, we decided to build them a custom solution for advertising and it worked for them. Um, it kept their site up and, and kept making them [00:02:00] money. And so we talked to them about like releasing it to, to the broader community to see if people would be able to benefit in the same way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, they were agreeable to that. And, um, yeah, we, we put it out in the market.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, I want to talk about that, that whole experience too, because I know a lot of people on the on agencies go, &#8220;Hey, what if we did this product?&#8221; And you&#8217;ve done this unique organic experience that came out of. Um, your work, which I think is so cool for agencies to think about that there might be an opportunity to do a product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;ve seen so many agencies like you, you know, this, uh, friends of ours that have done products, well, maybe they haven&#8217;t monetized directly from them, but it&#8217;s been a part of their portfolio and all that kind of stuff. So, um, how has that experience agency and then having this product. That you&#8217;d like, you work on, I know you&#8217;re passionate about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ve talked to you in the pa part about it, but tell me from that agency experience, what that journey has been like. [00:03:00]</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Uh, yeah, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s tricky for sure, right? Um, you know, our core services are, um, taking care of our customers, our clients who come to us and need more custom solutions, like that&#8217;s our bread and butter.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but you know, as agencies, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s great to be able to. You know, sort of, um, get past the ebb and flow of work to have a, a baseline of income that&#8217;s recurring revenue from a product kind of type of, uh, business. And so that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s sort of where, you know, we really focus on ad sanity to, to provide that for us is, is that that cushion to really start off our month every month with like, okay, we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re gonna make this much money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We can, you know, we can. Uh, count on that. And, um, so then it&#8217;s like, uh, from an organizational standpoint, how do we focus time on this when we&#8217;ve got clients who are saying, Hey, I, I need you to complete this work by this deadline, or whatever. You know, that that push and [00:04:00] pull of product development in that is, is sometimes really tricky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I&#8217;ve talked to some product only houses that say it&#8217;s just not possible to do well, um, between products and services. And in some days I definitely feel like that it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s really hard to, um, especially for a small team like ours, to, you know, please everybody all the time. And, um, so we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve set.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Over the years at Sandy Launch in 2011. So it&#8217;s been around for a long time. Um, and so throughout that time we&#8217;ve spent, um, you know, a lot of time on it in some instances and also in some instances, not a lot of time because client services had a ramped up. So we&#8217;re, um, we&#8217;re in the middle of trying some, some more dedicated resources towards the product to even out development, um, between the two different sides of our business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, it&#8217;s a work in progress, right now ?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So I appreciate that. I think hearing [00:05:00] that Will is gonna be help a lot of people as they&#8217;re thinking through this. Cuz I think there&#8217;s this perpetual, you know, pressure to say, do I have a product when you&#8217;re doing client services? But then I talk to so many people that are very, very happy doing client work only.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Um, And then some people like me that have failed miserably at client work and go, well, it&#8217;s product. So I think it&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;s been around very long time. Um, it makes money. Uh, and now it seems like what I hear too is it&#8217;s an opportunity to even diversify your overall business&#8217; revenue. Yep. And, um, I know you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re passionate about product, like this is something you&#8217;ve poured into with that sanity in particular, just talking to you in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I think that&#8217;s all, um, super cool to hear, hear, and then it has potential. Mm-hmm. . It could stay here and we&#8217;d be happy with it, but it has more potential if we might put some in there. And I think that&#8217;s a, that&#8217;s a really nice [00:06:00] place to be in the product space. Like we said, there&#8217;s plugins out there that, you know, agencies maintain for themselves that probably don&#8217;t make, you know, money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sure. Um, but are those portfolio pieces,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> and I think that&#8217;s one of, that&#8217;s a, it can be a drag like, um, We&#8217;ve put out free plug-ins before we ever put out paid plug-ins and supporting that as a service. Is really hard, right? Like if you have plug-ins that aren&#8217;t making you money, but they&#8217;re useful to the community, sometimes you put those out there and say, well, some people might be able to use this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those often get unsupported. They don&#8217;t, they don&#8217;t really ever change code because, you know, unless you have a very large team. Um, but, uh, It, it, it&#8217;s hard because you&#8217;re like, well, how do I, how do I put that into my business, uh, if I&#8217;m not making money off of it, but I have customers or clients who are paying me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that, that, that is tricky. I think if you have a free plugin. But, um, ad sanity started really [00:07:00] small, um, really lightweight, really basic as far as ad plug-ins go, but over time we added functionality through add-ons and things like that, that made it more robust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, tell me about the plugin itself. Uh, I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve obviously used it, but tell us a little bit about where the product is today, and then I&#8217;ll ask you where you&#8217;re kind of go, what your thoughts and ideas are for the future for the plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah, so the, at the core of Ad Sanity, it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s a custom post type. So for developers out there or people who are very familiar with WordPress, it, it&#8217;s, it utilizes a lot of WordPress core functionality, which is what we wanted, right? We didn&#8217;t want to build independent systems that we&#8217;re gonna add to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We wanted to make sure that we tied in as closely as possible to the WordPress editing experience. So, Any user could pick it up and, and build with it. And so, um, out, out of the box, it&#8217;s, you know, custom post type that supports a featured image. So if you have a relationship with a, an advertiser, you can take their, their ad assets, [00:08:00] dump &#8217;em into a featured image, and we use a lot of the built-in WordPress, um, queries and things like that to keep things really, keep things really performant. And you know, we have different blocks, widgets, template tags, like all sorts of different WordPress implementations to be able to display those in different ways on your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like that&#8217;s, Outta the box. That&#8217;s the very, very basic stuff. We also support, um, ad ad networks. So we have a, an area where you can dump in ad network code if you want to use an ad sense or some other, um, ad network, you can just pop that in there. Um, and over time we added also HTML five ads, which was really, um, a lot of our customers were asking for and even just plain text ads.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so you have some customization of a look and feel of those things, but, um, that&#8217;s sort of out of the box core functionality. Um, I think there&#8217;s some other things I&#8217;m probably glossing over, but, um, we, we created some additional add-ons to. [00:09:00] You know, enhance the functionality of the things that you might expect of expirations on impressions instead of just, um, like date-based ranges of like start and end dates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we have conditional advertising, so like, You can say, only show these ads on these categories. Um, but you have an ad group that has lots and lots of ads in it, so you can really slice and dice and display those, um, those ads where you want them, or based on user, user type or lots of different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we&#8217;ve got a way for advertisers to get self-service reporting, so if you do build relationships through advertisers, they can log in. See all views, clicks, and click through, rate, all that stuff on their own. So you don&#8217;t have to provide those to all your, your customer or your advertisers. Um, yeah, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s probably like a, a few other I&#8217;m missing, but I think those are like some of the popular ones, um, that are on top of my head.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. The ability to put ads on your [00:10:00] WordPress site. Um, uh, this, its, uh, I can assume will always exist, but. You know, trying to monetize onto the site and it does it very freshly Well, I was trying to remember when I logged in, seeing all the down the add-ons there for a second to help to, to share some isol.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, well, okay, so that&#8217;s where the plugin is now. And, and I wanna just talk a little bit before we talk about the future of what you&#8217;re trying to do with the plugin. I know a high value from you, from me and friends as long as we have talking about this product in particular, that you have a, you threaded align with this because.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, value, personal values, business values too. And in the subject of advertising, it&#8217;s always this tricky like, line. Yeah. To, uh, to, to, to walk. So tell me about that. I, I know cuz we&#8217;ve talked about this subject is, you know, you, I go to this, I can&#8217;t remember what the side is, but I&#8217;m like, man, I&#8217;ve got one answer by one inch square to actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What the text is and everything else is [00:11:00] video. And I know from past like that&#8217;s one of the things I know you always card against. How do you navigate that line with the product?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> I think like more and more lately, you know, advertising is sort of like, um, a four letter word almost. You know, people are like, I, I&#8217;ve got an ad blocker on my, my browser because I don&#8217;t wanna see 17,000 ads when I&#8217;m just trying to read an article.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. And, and more big publishers are starting to go, okay, well, like, hold on a second. We were, we rely on that money. To, um, to be able to create this content. So I think what, what that&#8217;s really led us to is how can we help all of our customers, our insanity customers, be good advertisers or good publishers, and not just spam.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ads everywhere, all over their site. Um, and so we&#8217;ve done a lot of, um, writing on our site about, you know, best practices for advertising. Um, we actually have another ad-on, which is, um, [00:12:00] is an ad block detection because we want, we want our, to empower our publishers to start that conversation with their visitors, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We want them to be able to say, , I appreciate that you&#8217;ve got an ad blocker. I&#8217;ve got one too, or whatever, but here&#8217;s why I have ads on my site. You know, I&#8217;m a small team of, of content creators. We rely on these advertisements to pay our bills. You know, either could you turn off your, your ad blocker for our site, you know, like, like whitelist us or in some cases we&#8217;ve been talking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Creating a membership so that people become members to your site and you can disable using the conditional ads add-on. You can disable ads for users who are logged in or at a certain level. Um, so again, it creates, um, more of a community around your site. It allows you to, to connect with people who are visiting your site and actually have more meaningful conversations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With them, um, and, and give them the kind of content that they want. Um, and, and in addition, be able to [00:13:00] provide advertising that&#8217;s relevant to those people. So not only are they not turned off by the advertising, they&#8217;re actually more willing to like look into those, those advertisements because it&#8217;s something they&#8217;re you&#8217;re already writing about or something that&#8217;s related to your content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I, I love that for two reasons. One is because, um, giving somebody an option that. , um, you know, like developer and explaining why we&#8217;re doing this. I mean, post status.com, we take advertising in the form of sponsorships. We want people to see those and say thank you. And those advertisers have like goals, objectives, they wanna meet a part of that. And so it&#8217;s like balancing that. I know, I know this, so I love that. You&#8217;re like, Hey, I know you don&#8217;t like it. Here&#8217;s a path to help support us. Mm-hmm. . And then the second. Um, the ability from just a business model standpoint to go, you don&#8217;t like &#8217;em, turn &#8217;em off.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like come into, it&#8217;s a great introduction to membership and that&#8217;s, you know, [00:14:00] particularly during Covid, Brandon, I&#8217;m sure you saw this too, is like the rise in the. anecdotal data from friends around the sphere. Yeah. Is like membership sites were really hot core sites. L m s stuff was really hot and for good reason, people kinda left, has had a little bit more time and thought I&#8217;ll do my pet project and stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. And I think this is that line you, you kind of balance with any kind of membership is. Strong enough front facing content to attract people to the membership. And I love that you&#8217;ve got a path for people to use, um, with, with those two scenarios. Mm-hmm. , hey, you don&#8217;t like it? We don&#8217;t either, but here&#8217;s an opportunity and then a way to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I want to pay for the non-advertising version and to do that programmatically. I pr think it&#8217;s pretty spectacular. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right. What, what, what else did I miss on, on that part? I love that you mentioned that particular add-on. Is there anything else that came to mind before I start talking about [00:15:00] the future and what you&#8217;re trying to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> I think one thing that I just, just, it&#8217;s not specifically related to this, but one thing I, I did forget to mention when we were talking about agencies or like being an agency and having products is, um, what we have found in having ad sanity is there, there&#8217;s always people who want customizations, right? Like we get that as an agency. People come in and they&#8217;re like, Hey, we&#8217;ve got these seven plugins. We need &#8217;em to work better together. Or we have, you know, this one plugin that we just need to tweak another 10% to get exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Have it exactly do what we want. And as a product developer, it, it gives you like core knowledge about this plugin. Like I know how to modify ad sanity. Any use case probably. And so we have, like, we&#8217;ve had people come to us like looking for ad sanity and, and seeing it as a good platform, but they need another 10%, or in some cases they need an entire add-on built for it, um, to do what they want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, and that has been a huge revenue generator for, [00:16:00] for Pixel Jar. Um, and, and so like that, that, you know, Cross-selling opportunity. I think as far as an agency and a product space is, is actually really great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, we really didn&#8217;t go deep into that, but I a hundred percent agree and I&#8217;m not from the a agency side, but I go a project that can generate work or an name brain that just being out there and knowing that you might have a plugin that somebody might go, huh, it&#8217;s a cool plug.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wonder who, who does it. And it&#8217;s this awesome agency. Could lead to a lot, a lot of work. And then I know there&#8217;s companies in space and you got, you all might do this too, is companies approach you to build their integration plugin and continue to maintain it. And so you&#8217;re like mm-hmm. . I, I think that&#8217;s an excellent, I&#8217;m glad you came back to that because an excellent way to build the marketing exposure and, uh, drive revenue to your business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Even [00:17:00] some of the ones, like our friends over at WebDev Studios, I know they&#8217;ve got custom post op ui and I think to myself, what a great calling card. Yeah. Because I think it&#8217;s installed over a million times on the repo. And, um, but what a great calling card, you know, to say when you&#8217;re talking to a client or to get, be out there in the mainstream.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, how have the free plugins you&#8217;ve done in the past worked? Um, there, there&#8217;s bound to be some net effect that&#8217;s helped, but how has that experience gone from the free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Um, it&#8217;s difficult, right? Like, um, I would say some of &#8217;em are, um, you know, used on a couple thousand blogs or something like that. Like nothing to the extent of custom post type ui, um, which is a fantastic plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We use that several times. Um, but, uh, but yeah, like, uh, for. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s more of like the passion for the community that gets us to put those out. Um, the first, I think the first free plugin I [00:18:00] put out was because in 2009, There was a plug-in competition in New York, uh, word Camp New York, that, uh, it just, as a developer, it was a way for me to engage with that community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like I had never been to New York before. And, uh, because there was that plug-in competition where you were gonna be on stage and, and kind of talking about the plug-in you built, um, and you had to have a team that was, um, distributed. So you had to work with people, uh, that weren&#8217;t just in your company or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I got the, the opportunity to work with people that would&#8217;ve never worked with otherwise. Uh, I flew out to New York to, to present, um, the plugin and, and I think that was like my favorite experience for building like a free plugin because, um, you know, being part of that WordPress community feeling, the collaboration was, was pretty awesome. I, I think for me it&#8217;s more of a, it has to be more about the passion in, in that case than, you [00:19:00] know, having it be really like a, a lead generator in a lot of cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yes, absolutely. And I mean, I would think the better, it helps showcase your core expertise, the work you do, um, e even better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yeah, I like that. All right. Well, Let&#8217;s talk about the future of added sanity and what you got planned and what you&#8217;re thinking about, um, a little bit more in depth. So what&#8217;s next for the, the product?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Uh, that&#8217;s a good question. Like I said, um, we are, uh, we&#8217;re experimenting with dedicated resources for the, the product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So while we continue to maintain it, build new features here and there, it&#8217;s not as like, it, it&#8217;s, we don&#8217;t have a dedicated team to it. So, um, it, it, it can, sometimes development can come sometimes slow. So I think that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s part of our plans next year is, is really to dedicate resources to it. We, we are also as [00:20:00] many plugins are, um, sort of like finding our way with all of the new block editing stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, we addressed a lot of our core functionality with block editing. Um, we integrated with a couple page builders at the same time. But I mean, the, the way site editing is evolving, um, will probably. Further and deeper than we expect. And so we&#8217;ve been following a lot of the, the development on, on site editing and Gutenberg and, and all of that stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think you know what it means for us, like I am, I&#8217;m a backend more PHP focused developer. So what it means for us is really, you know, fully embracing more JavaScript life, um, and, and becoming, uh, You, you know, more in tune and more ingrained with what, with what WordPress is offering at its core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because that was our initial mantra is like being, [00:21:00] being very, um, focused on what WordPress offers out of the box and making it an easy to use experience. 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in Bio\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:6458:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-white-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--80);padding-right:0;padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--80);padding-left:0\"><h1 style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:700;\" class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-site-title has-medium-font-size\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/patterns\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"home\">Block Pattern Directory</a></h1>\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-site-tagline\">Beautifully designed patterns ready to go with a simple copy/paste</p>\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-1 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a 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merch</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button -->\n\n<!-- wp:button {\"width\":100} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\">Support me on Patreon</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button -->\n\n<!-- wp:button {\"width\":100,\"className\":\"is-style-fill\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100 is-style-fill\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\">Get tickets for my show</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons -->\n\n<!-- wp:social-links {\"iconColor\":\"black\",\"iconColorValue\":\"#000000\",\"iconBackgroundColor\":\"white\",\"iconBackgroundColorValue\":\"#ffffff\",\"size\":\"has-normal-icon-size\",\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"blockGap\":{\"top\":\"0\",\"left\":\"0\"},\"padding\":{\"top\":\"var:preset|spacing|60\",\"bottom\":\"var:preset|spacing|60\"}}},\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"justifyContent\":\"center\"}} -->\n<ul class=\"wp-block-social-links has-normal-icon-size has-icon-color has-icon-background-color\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60)\"><!-- wp:social-link {\"url\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/\",\"service\":\"instagram\"} /-->\n\n<!-- wp:social-link {\"url\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/\",\"service\":\"bandcamp\"} /-->\n\n<!-- wp:social-link {\"url\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/\",\"service\":\"twitter\"} /-->\n\n<!-- wp:social-link {\"url\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/\",\"service\":\"twitch\"} /--></ul>\n<!-- /wp:social-links --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group -->\";}i:1;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:732;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:21:\"Simple call to action\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:961:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-text-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"background-color:#ffffff;color:#000000\">\n<div style=\"height:64px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:.9\"><strong>GET IN TOUCH</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-heading\" id=\"schedule-a-visit\" style=\"font-size:59px;line-height:1.15\"><strong>Schedule a Visit</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-horizontal is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-4 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-50\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-text-color has-background\" style=\"border-radius:50px;background-color:#000000;color:#ffffff\">Contact us</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:64px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:89:\"A container with a white background. 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has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:.9\"><strong>GET IN TOUCH</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:heading {\"textAlign\":\"center\",\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":59,\"lineHeight\":\"1.15\"}}} -->\n<h2 class=\"has-text-align-center\" id=\"schedule-a-visit\" style=\"font-size:59px;line-height:1.15\"><strong>Schedule a Visit</strong></h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:buttons {\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"justifyContent\":\"center\",\"orientation\":\"horizontal\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons\"><!-- wp:button {\"width\":50,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#000000\",\"text\":\"#ffffff\"},\"border\":{\"radius\":\"50px\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-50\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-text-color has-background\" style=\"border-radius:50px;background-color:#000000;color:#ffffff\">Contact us</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons -->\n\n<!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":64} -->\n<div style=\"height:64px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group -->\";}i:2;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:678;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:26:\"Three column pricing table\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:3717:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-12 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\" style=\"margin-bottom:0\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-2ae1b943d87d6b5cbc827b8e7de5c343 is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#ffe97d;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"single\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Single</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.5\"><strong>Enrich our growing community.</strong> </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-css-opacity has-background is-style-wide\" style=\"background-color:#000000;color:#000000\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\">\n<li>General admission and member discounts for one adult</li>\n\n\n\n<li>One free ticket per special exhibition</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Two single-use guest passes per year</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull is-horizontal is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-6 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$110 / year</a></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-c860b6260b3b3b7bae640a65db9c9aec is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#d1d1e1;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"family\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Family</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.5\"><strong>Support special exhibitions.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\">\n<li>General admission and member discounts for two adults</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Four free tickets per special exhibition</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Four single-use guest passes per year</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull is-horizontal is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-8 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100 is-style-fill\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$200 / year</a></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-4a86cd4fa1de9230a73a90c7ad305893 is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#c0ebf1;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"patron\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Patron</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\"><strong>Take support to the next level.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\">\n<li>General admission and member discounts for two adults</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Five free tickets per special exhibition</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Six single-use guest passes per year</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull is-horizontal is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-10 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$400 / year</a></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:272:\"Three equal-width columns set up as a pricing table. The left column has a yellow background, the middle column has a light purple background, and the right column has a light blue background. Each column contains a heading, subheading, separator, list, and then a button.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:117:\"core/button,core/buttons,core/column,core/columns,core/heading,core/list,core/list-item,core/paragraph,core/separator\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:14:\"call-to-action\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:6125:\"<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"wide\",\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"margin\":{\"bottom\":\"0\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\" style=\"margin-bottom:0\"><!-- wp:column {\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#ffe97d\",\"text\":\"#000000\"},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}}},\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#ffe97d;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:heading {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"40px\"}},\"anchor\":\"single\"} -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"single\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Single</strong></h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.5\"}},\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.5\"><strong>Enrich our growing community.</strong> </p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:separator {\"opacity\":\"css\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#000000\"}},\"className\":\"is-style-wide\"} -->\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-css-opacity has-background is-style-wide\" style=\"background-color:#000000;color:#000000\" />\n<!-- /wp:separator -->\n\n<!-- wp:list {\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\"><!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>General admission and member discounts for one adult</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>One free ticket per special exhibition</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>Two single-use guest passes per year</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item --></ul>\n<!-- /wp:list -->\n\n<!-- wp:buttons {\"align\":\"full\",\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"justifyContent\":\"center\",\"orientation\":\"horizontal\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull\"><!-- wp:button {\"textColor\":\"white\",\"width\":100,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#000000\"},\"border\":{\"radius\":0}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$110 / year</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#d1d1e1\",\"text\":\"#000000\"},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}}},\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#d1d1e1;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:heading {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"40px\"}},\"anchor\":\"family\"} -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"family\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Family</strong></h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.5\"}},\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.5\"><strong>Support special exhibitions.</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:separator {\"opacity\":\"css\",\"className\":\"is-style-wide\"} -->\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n<!-- /wp:separator -->\n\n<!-- wp:list {\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\"><!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>General admission and member discounts for two adults</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>Four free tickets per special exhibition</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>Four single-use guest passes per year</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item --></ul>\n<!-- /wp:list -->\n\n<!-- wp:buttons {\"align\":\"full\",\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"justifyContent\":\"center\",\"orientation\":\"horizontal\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull\"><!-- wp:button {\"textColor\":\"white\",\"width\":100,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#000000\"},\"border\":{\"radius\":0}},\"className\":\"is-style-fill\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100 is-style-fill\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$200 / year</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#c0ebf1\",\"text\":\"#000000\"},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}}},\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column has-text-color has-background has-link-color\" style=\"color:#000000;background-color:#c0ebf1;padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:heading {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"40px\"}},\"anchor\":\"patron\"} -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"patron\" style=\"font-size:40px\"><strong>Patron</strong></h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-normal-font-size\"><strong>Take support to the next level.</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:separator {\"opacity\":\"css\",\"className\":\"is-style-wide\"} -->\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n<!-- /wp:separator -->\n\n<!-- wp:list {\"fontSize\":\"normal\"} -->\n<ul class=\"has-normal-font-size\"><!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>General admission and member discounts for two adults</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>Five free tickets per special exhibition</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item -->\n\n<!-- wp:list-item -->\n<li>Six single-use guest passes per year</li>\n<!-- /wp:list-item --></ul>\n<!-- /wp:list -->\n\n<!-- wp:buttons {\"align\":\"full\",\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"justifyContent\":\"center\",\"orientation\":\"horizontal\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons alignfull\"><!-- wp:button {\"textColor\":\"white\",\"width\":100,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#000000\"},\"border\":{\"radius\":0}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-white-color has-text-color has-background no-border-radius wp-element-button\" style=\"background-color:#000000\">$400 / year</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\";}i:3;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:669;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:31:\"Image and quote on a background\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:2281:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide has-media-on-the-right is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-center has-background\" style=\"background-color:#f1f5c7\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-1024x1024.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5263 size-full\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-1024x1024.png 1024w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-300x300.png 300w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-150x150.png 150w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-768x768.png 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1.png 1300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" /></figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<p style=\"font-size:36px;line-height:1.2\"><strong>Even the bitterest fruit has sugar in it.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-extra-small-font-size\">– Terry a O&#8217;Neal</p>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-center has-background\" style=\"background-color:#fffdea\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-1024x1024.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-673 size-full\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-1024x1024.png 1024w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-300x300.png 300w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-150x150.png 150w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-768x768.png 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half.png 1300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" /></figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<p style=\"font-size:36px;line-height:1.2\"><strong>The trees that are slow to grow bear the best fruit.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-extra-small-font-size\">– Molière</p>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:221:\"Two media and text blocks. The top one has a pale green background. The text is on the left and contains a quote, and the image is on the right. The next block underneath has the image on the left, and quote on the right.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:800;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:41:\"core/group,core/media-text,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";i:1;s:6:\"images\";i:2;s:4:\"text\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:2404:\"<!-- wp:media-text {\"mediaPosition\":\"right\",\"mediaId\":5263,\"mediaLink\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/pattern/image-and-quote-on-a-background/pear-3/\",\"mediaType\":\"image\",\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#f1f5c7\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide has-media-on-the-right is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-center has-background\" style=\"background-color:#f1f5c7\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-1-1024x1024.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5263 size-full\" /></figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.2\",\"fontSize\":\"36px\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"font-size:36px;line-height:1.2\"><strong>Even the bitterest fruit has sugar in it.</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"extra-small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-extra-small-font-size\">– Terry a O\'Neal</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div></div>\n<!-- /wp:media-text -->\n\n<!-- wp:media-text {\"mediaId\":673,\"mediaLink\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/pear-half/\",\"mediaType\":\"image\",\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#fffdea\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-center has-background\" style=\"background-color:#fffdea\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/pear-half-1024x1024.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-673 size-full\" /></figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.2\",\"fontSize\":\"36px\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"font-size:36px;line-height:1.2\"><strong>The trees that are slow to grow bear the best fruit.</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"extra-small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-extra-small-font-size\">– Molière</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div></div>\n<!-- /wp:media-text -->\";}i:4;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:591;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:5:\"Event\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1687:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignfull has-media-on-the-right is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-top has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-5fce4e677a9b9d7d0cae0196c9d74d97\" style=\"color:#fffdc7;background-color:#121c1c;grid-template-columns:auto 60%\"><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-link-color wp-elements-71b4a847bbd96313422a1303e9ba41f3 is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:48px;font-weight:700;line-height:1.15\">Opening <br>Party</h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-0860918d5b16b9e1778b1966b333b980\" style=\"color:#fffdc7\"><strong><a href=\"#\">RSVP →</a></strong></p>\n</div>\n</div><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-590 size-full\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-300x300.jpg 300w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-150x150.jpg 150w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-768x768.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-1536x1536.jpg 1536w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1.jpg 1572w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" /></figure></div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:0:\"\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:800;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:54:\"core/group,core/heading,core/media-text,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:6:\"banner\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";i:2;s:6:\"images\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:1617:\"<!-- wp:media-text {\"align\":\"full\",\"mediaPosition\":\"right\",\"mediaId\":590,\"mediaLink\":\"https://wordpress.org/patterns/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1/\",\"mediaType\":\"image\",\"mediaWidth\":60,\"verticalAlignment\":\"top\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#121c1c\",\"text\":\"#fffdc7\"},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#fffdc7\"}}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignfull has-media-on-the-right is-stacked-on-mobile is-vertically-aligned-top has-text-color has-background has-link-color\" style=\"color:#fffdc7;background-color:#121c1c;grid-template-columns:auto 60%\"><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"2em\",\"right\":\"2em\",\"bottom\":\"2em\",\"left\":\"2em\"}},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#fffdc7\"}}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-link-color\" style=\"padding-top:2em;padding-right:2em;padding-bottom:2em;padding-left:2em\"><!-- wp:heading {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontWeight\":\"700\",\"fontSize\":\"48px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.15\"}}} -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:48px;font-weight:700;line-height:1.15\">Opening <br>Party</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#fffdc7\"}}},\"color\":{\"text\":\"#fffdc7\"}}} -->\n<p class=\"has-text-color has-link-color\" style=\"color:#fffdc7\"><strong><a href=\"#\">RSVP →</a></strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-430289-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-590 size-full\" /></figure></div>\n<!-- /wp:media-text -->\";}i:5;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:566;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:30:\"Event announcement and details\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1832:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-black-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-b69341fa8ca2b5011df7156020136c46 is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"background-color:#d2cdc7\">\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"alignwide wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:46px;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1\">HÉLÈNE DUMAS<br><em>FRAGMENTS</em></h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"alignwide wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:46px;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1\">20/4 — 9/9/2021<br>SOUTH LONDON ART GALLERY</h3>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-18 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:25%\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:75%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://mywptesting.site/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Histoire_naturelle_..._-fragments-_-_Upper_cover_C108eee15-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-3173\" /></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-21 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p style=\"font-size:25px\">MORE INFO AT: WP.ORG · +44 21 1234 5678</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\" style=\"font-size:25px\">INSTAGRAM · <a href=\"#\">TICKETS</a></p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:0:\"\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:800;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:86:\"core/column,core/columns,core/group,core/heading,core/image,core/paragraph,core/spacer\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";i:1;s:6:\"images\";i:2;s:4:\"text\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:2622:\"<!-- wp:group {\"align\":\"full\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#d2cdc7\"},\"elements\":{\"link\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"var:preset|color|black\"}}}},\"textColor\":\"black\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-black-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color\" style=\"background-color:#d2cdc7\"><!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":50} -->\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer -->\n\n<!-- wp:heading {\"align\":\"wide\",\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"46px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.1\",\"fontWeight\":\"400\"}}} -->\n<h2 class=\"alignwide\" style=\"font-size:46px;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1\">HÉLÈNE DUMAS<br><em>FRAGMENTS</em></h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:heading {\"level\":3,\"align\":\"wide\",\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"46px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.1\",\"fontWeight\":\"400\"}}} -->\n<h3 class=\"alignwide\" style=\"font-size:46px;font-weight:400;line-height:1.1\">20/4 — 9/9/2021<br>SOUTH LONDON ART GALLERY</h3>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":50} -->\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer -->\n\n<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"wide\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\"><!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"25%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:25%\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"75%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:75%\"><!-- wp:image {\"id\":3173,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img src=\"https://mywptesting.site/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Histoire_naturelle_..._-fragments-_-_Upper_cover_C108eee15-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-3173\" /></figure>\n<!-- /wp:image --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\n\n<!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":50} -->\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer -->\n\n<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"wide\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\"><!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"25px\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"font-size:25px\">MORE INFO AT: WP.ORG · +44 21 1234 5678</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"align\":\"right\",\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"25px\"}}} -->\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\" style=\"font-size:25px\">INSTAGRAM · <a href=\"#\">TICKETS</a></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\n\n<!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":50} -->\n<div style=\"height:50px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group -->\";}i:6;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:573;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:37:\"Image on solid color with description\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1830:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignfull is-layout-flex wp-container-28 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-cover has-background-dim\" style=\"background-color:#f6f6f6;min-height:600px\"><div class=\"wp-block-cover__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-cover-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-medium\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"263\" height=\"300\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-263x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-571\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-263x300.jpg 263w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-898x1024.jpg 898w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-768x875.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-1347x1536.jpg 1347w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture.jpg 1658w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 263px) 100vw, 263px\" /></figure></div>\n</div></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-top:1em;padding-right:1em;padding-bottom:1em;padding-left:1em\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-26 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:320px\">\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.6\"><strong>Airplane</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.6\">Copper wire, wood base. I created this piece in late 2008. For this work, I aimed to convey both the industrial heaviness of an airplane, but also the cloudlike floating quality you feel when you’re in one.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:38:\"Image on solid color with description.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:61:\"core/column,core/columns,core/cover,core/image,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";i:1;s:6:\"images\";i:2;s:4:\"text\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:1826:\"<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"full\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignfull\"><!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"50%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\"><!-- wp:cover {\"customOverlayColor\":\"#f6f6f6\",\"minHeight\":600} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-cover has-background-dim\" style=\"background-color:#f6f6f6;min-height:600px\"><div class=\"wp-block-cover__inner-container\"><!-- wp:image {\"align\":\"center\",\"id\":571,\"sizeSlug\":\"medium\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-medium\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/wire-sculpture-263x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-571\" /></figure></div>\n<!-- /wp:image --></div></div>\n<!-- /wp:cover --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\",\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"padding\":{\"top\":\"1em\",\"right\":\"1em\",\"bottom\":\"1em\",\"left\":\"1em\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"padding-top:1em;padding-right:1em;padding-bottom:1em;padding-left:1em\"><!-- wp:columns -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns\"><!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"320px\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:320px\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.6\"}},\"fontSize\":\"small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.6\"><strong>Airplane</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.6\"}},\"fontSize\":\"small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\" style=\"line-height:1.6\">Copper wire, wood base. I created this piece in late 2008. For this work, I aimed to convey both the industrial heaviness of an airplane, but also the cloudlike floating quality you feel when you’re in one.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\";}i:7;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:526;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:31:\"Offset images with descriptions\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:2907:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-top is-layout-flex wp-container-38 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group wp-container-content-31 is-vertical is-content-justification-left is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-32 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large wp-container-content-29\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"793\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-793x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Beautiful photomechanical prints of White Irises (1887-1897) by Ogawa Kazumasa. Original from The Rijksmuseum. \" class=\"wp-image-525\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-793x1024.jpg 793w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-232x300.jpg 232w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-768x992.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-1189x1536.jpg 1189w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-1586x2048.jpg 1586w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 793px) 100vw, 793px\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-30 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>White Irises</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\">Ogawa Kazumasa</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group wp-container-content-35 is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-36 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-34 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div style=\"height:80px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>Cherry Blossom</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\">Ogawa Kazumasa</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"font-size:14px\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"707\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-707x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Beautiful photomechanical prints of Cherry Blossom (1887-1897) by Ogawa Kazumasa. Original from The Rijksmuseum. \" class=\"wp-image-524\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-707x1024.jpg 707w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-207x300.jpg 207w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-768x1112.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-1061x1536.jpg 1061w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-1414x2048.jpg 1414w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-scaled.jpg 1768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 707px) 100vw, 707px\" /></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:58:\"Two offset columns with images and titles within each one.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:73:\"core/column,core/columns,core/group,core/image,core/paragraph,core/spacer\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";i:1;s:7:\"gallery\";i:2;s:6:\"images\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:2930:\"<!-- wp:columns {\"verticalAlignment\":\"top\",\"align\":\"wide\",\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"blockGap\":{\"top\":\"var:preset|spacing|40\",\"left\":\"var:preset|spacing|40\"}}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-top\"><!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"top\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"layout\":{\"selfStretch\":\"fixed\",\"flexSize\":\"480px\"},\"spacing\":{\"margin\":{\"top\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"0\"}}},\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"orientation\":\"vertical\",\"flexWrap\":\"nowrap\",\"justifyContent\":\"left\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\"><!-- wp:image {\"id\":525,\"sizeSlug\":\"large\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\",\"style\":{\"layout\":{\"selfStretch\":\"fixed\",\"flexSize\":\"50%\"}}} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Iris-793x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Beautiful photomechanical prints of White Irises (1887-1897) by Ogawa Kazumasa. Original from The Rijksmuseum. \" class=\"wp-image-525\" /></figure>\n<!-- /wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"blockGap\":\"0\"}},\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"orientation\":\"vertical\",\"flexWrap\":\"nowrap\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"medium\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>White Irises</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\">Ogawa Kazumasa</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"top\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"layout\":{\"selfStretch\":\"fixed\",\"flexSize\":\"480px\"},\"spacing\":{\"margin\":{\"top\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"0\"}}},\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"orientation\":\"vertical\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0\"><!-- wp:group {\"style\":{\"spacing\":{\"blockGap\":\"0\"}},\"layout\":{\"type\":\"flex\",\"orientation\":\"vertical\",\"flexWrap\":\"nowrap\"}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":\"80px\"} -->\n<div style=\"height:80px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"medium\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>Cherry Blossom</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"fontSize\":\"small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\">Ogawa Kazumasa</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group -->\n\n<!-- wp:image {\"id\":524,\"sizeSlug\":\"large\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\",\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"14px\"}}} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\" style=\"font-size:14px\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Cherry-Blossom-707x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Beautiful photomechanical prints of Cherry Blossom (1887-1897) by Ogawa Kazumasa. Original from The Rijksmuseum. \" class=\"wp-image-524\" /></figure>\n<!-- /wp:image --></div>\n<!-- /wp:group --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\";}i:8;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:521;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:45:\"Image with description below and to the right\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1665:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-43 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:10%\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Vintage Cupid Illustration\" class=\"wp-image-522\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-300x300.jpg 300w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-150x150.jpg 150w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-768x768.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1.jpg 1510w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" /></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:10%\"></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-46 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p style=\"font-size:14px\"><strong>Cupid in Flight</strong><br>48” x 48” Giclee print on archival paper.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:46:\"Image with description below and to the right.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:50:\"core/column,core/columns,core/image,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";i:1;s:6:\"images\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:1241:\"<!-- wp:columns -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns\"><!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"10%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:10%\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:image {\"id\":522,\"sizeSlug\":\"large\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/image-from-rawpixel-id-539759-jpeg-1-1024x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Vintage Cupid Illustration\" class=\"wp-image-522\" /></figure>\n<!-- /wp:image --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"10%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:10%\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\n\n<!-- wp:columns -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns\"><!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"14px\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"font-size:14px\"><strong>Cupid in Flight</strong><br>48” x 48” Giclee print on archival paper.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\";}i:9;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:502;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:13:\"Event details\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1684:\"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignwide size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1227\" src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Image of a woman being carried through the air by swans.\" class=\"wp-image-501\" srcset=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-300x144.jpg 300w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-1024x491.jpg 1024w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-768x368.jpg 768w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-1536x736.jpg 1536w, https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-2048x981.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flex wp-container-51 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p style=\"line-height:2\"><strong>Location:</strong><br>82 Main St. Brooklyn, NY</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p style=\"line-height:2\"><strong>Date:</strong><br>October 24, 2021</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-text-color has-background wp-element-button\" style=\"color:#efefef;background-color:#262626\">Purchase Tickets</a></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:14:\"Event details.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:75:\"core/button,core/buttons,core/column,core/columns,core/image,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:14:\"call-to-action\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:1:{i:0;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:1642:\"<!-- wp:image {\"align\":\"wide\",\"id\":501,\"sizeSlug\":\"full\",\"linkDestination\":\"none\"} -->\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignwide size-full\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/patterns/files/2021/06/Group-17-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Image of a woman being carried through the air by swans.\" class=\"wp-image-501\" /></figure>\n<!-- /wp:image -->\n\n<!-- wp:columns {\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\",\"align\":\"wide\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-center\"><!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"2\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"line-height:2\"><strong>Location:</strong><br>82 Main St. Brooklyn, NY</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"2\"}}} -->\n<p style=\"line-height:2\"><strong>Date:</strong><br>October 24, 2021</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column {\"verticalAlignment\":\"center\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\"><!-- wp:buttons -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons\"><!-- wp:button {\"width\":100,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#262626\",\"text\":\"#efefef\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-100\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link has-text-color has-background wp-element-button\" style=\"color:#efefef;background-color:#262626\">Purchase Tickets</a></div>\n<!-- /wp:button --></div>\n<!-- /wp:buttons --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\";}i:10;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:200;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:21:\"Three columns of text\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:1077:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignfull has-text-color has-background is-layout-flex wp-container-55 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\" style=\"background-color:#ffffff;color:#000000\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"http://wordpress.org\">Virtual Tour ↗</a></strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Get a virtual tour of the museum. Ideal for schools and events.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org\">Current Shows ↗</a></strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Stay updated and see our current exhibitions here.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org\">Useful Info ↗</a></strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Get to know our opening times, ticket prices and discounts.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:22:\"Three columns of text.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:52:\"core/column,core/columns,core/heading,core/paragraph\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:3:{i:0;s:7:\"columns\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";i:2;s:4:\"text\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:4:\"core\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:1496:\"<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"full\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\",\"background\":\"#ffffff\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignfull has-text-color has-background\" style=\"background-color:#ffffff;color:#000000\"><!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:heading {\"level\":3,\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"24px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.3\"}}} -->\n<h3 style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"http://wordpress.org\">Virtual Tour ↗</a></strong></h3>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Get a virtual tour of the museum. Ideal for schools and events.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:heading {\"level\":3,\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"24px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.3\"}}} -->\n<h3 style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org\">Current Shows ↗</a></strong></h3>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Stay updated and see our current exhibitions here.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column -->\n\n<!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:heading {\"level\":3,\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"fontSize\":\"24px\",\"lineHeight\":\"1.3\"}}} -->\n<h3 style=\"font-size:24px;line-height:1.3\"><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org\">Useful Info ↗</a></strong></h3>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>Get to know our opening times, ticket prices and discounts.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\";}i:11;O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:2:\"id\";i:199;s:5:\"title\";O:8:\"stdClass\":1:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:34:\"Three columns with images and text\";}s:7:\"content\";O:8:\"stdClass\":2:{s:8:\"rendered\";s:3152:\"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"background-color:#f8f4e4\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-57 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div style=\"height:100px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h6 class=\"has-text-color wp-block-heading\" id=\"ecosystem\" style=\"color:#000000\">ECOSYSTEM</h6>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-color\" style=\"color:#000000;font-size:5vw;line-height:1.1\"><strong>Positive growth.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:5px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-61 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:33.38%\">\n<p class=\"has-text-color has-extra-small-font-size\" style=\"color:#000000\"><em>Nature</em>, in the common sense, refers to essences unchanged by man; space, the air, the river, the leaf.&nbsp;<em>Art</em>&nbsp;is applied to the mixture of his will with the same things, as in a house, a canal, a statue, a picture. But his operations taken together are so insignificant, a little chipping, baking, patching, and washing, that in an impression so grand as that of the world on the human mind, they do not vary the result.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:33%\">\n<div style=\"height:100px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/5.8/outside-01.jpg\" alt=\"The sun setting through a dense forest.\" /></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:33.62%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/5.8/outside-02.jpg\" alt=\"Wind turbines standing on a grassy plain, against a blue sky.\" /></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide is-layout-flex wp-container-64 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:67%\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"alignright size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/5.8/outside-03.jpg\" alt=\"The sun shining over a ridge leading down into the shore. In the distance, a car drives down a road.\" /></figure></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:33%\">\n<p class=\"has-text-color has-extra-small-font-size\" style=\"color:#000000\">Undoubtedly we have no questions to ask which are unanswerable. We must trust the perfection of the creation so far, as to believe that whatever curiosity the order of things has awakened in our minds, the order of things can satisfy. Every man&#8217;s condition is a solution in hieroglyphic to those inquiries he would put.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\";s:9:\"protected\";b:0;}s:4:\"meta\";O:8:\"stdClass\":7:{s:13:\"wpop_keywords\";s:0:\"\";s:16:\"wpop_description\";s:77:\"Three columns with images and text, with vertical spacing for an offset look.\";s:19:\"wpop_viewport_width\";i:1200;s:16:\"wpop_block_types\";a:0:{}s:11:\"wpop_locale\";s:5:\"en_US\";s:15:\"wpop_wp_version\";s:0:\"\";s:25:\"wpop_contains_block_types\";s:86:\"core/column,core/columns,core/group,core/heading,core/image,core/paragraph,core/spacer\";}s:14:\"category_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:7:\"columns\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";}s:13:\"keyword_slugs\";a:2:{i:0;s:4:\"core\";i:1;s:8:\"featured\";}s:15:\"pattern_content\";s:3990:\"<!-- wp:group {\"align\":\"full\",\"style\":{\"color\":{\"background\":\"#f8f4e4\"}}} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-background\" style=\"background-color:#f8f4e4\"><!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"wide\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\"><!-- wp:column -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\"><!-- wp:spacer -->\n<div style=\"height:100px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer -->\n\n<!-- wp:heading {\"level\":6,\"style\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}}} -->\n<h6 class=\"has-text-color\" id=\"ecosystem\" style=\"color:#000000\">ECOSYSTEM</h6>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n\n<!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"typography\":{\"lineHeight\":\"1.1\",\"fontSize\":\"5vw\"},\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}}} -->\n<p class=\"has-text-color\" style=\"color:#000000;font-size:5vw;line-height:1.1\"><strong>Positive growth.</strong></p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n\n<!-- wp:spacer {\"height\":\"5px\"} -->\n<div style=\"height:5px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<!-- /wp:spacer --></div>\n<!-- /wp:column --></div>\n<!-- /wp:columns -->\n\n<!-- wp:columns {\"align\":\"wide\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\"><!-- wp:column {\"width\":\"33.38%\"} -->\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:33.38%\"><!-- wp:paragraph {\"style\":{\"color\":{\"text\":\"#000000\"}},\"fontSize\":\"extra-small\"} -->\n<p class=\"has-text-color has-extra-small-font-size\" style=\"color:#000000\"><em>Nature</em>, in the common sense, refers to essences unchanged by man; space, the air, the river, the leaf.&nbsp;<em>Art</em>&nbsp;is applied to the mixture of his will with the same things, as in a house, a canal, a statue, a picture. 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